<p>ephiphany…</p>
<p>"“Under state law, nonresidents who are illegal immigrants must have attended high school in state for a minimum of three years, have graduated from a California high school or attained the equivalent, and filed an affidavit confirming these requirements.”</p>
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<p>Confirming my statement that legal US residents do not need to be in <em>CA</em> for three years in order to qualify for in-state admissions and in-state tuition. They need to be residents for one year. The statement above has nothing to do with legal US residents.</p>
<p>I find the illegal immigrant issue a bogus issue.</p>
<p>Around 1% of the students fit this category. (Probably less. I don’t feel like looking it up).</p>
<p>And most of the students go to community colleges. And when they go to community cooleges and get an education they can become more productive.</p>
<p>It could be a net win for society. I find it hard to believe these students are taking up a lot of spots and keeping California resident students out.</p>
<p>epiphany, I was concerned with illegal immigrants. I see you were concerned with out-of-staters. Sorry about that.</p>
<p>I get it, dstark. And I’m actually way ahead of you. You are the one who keeps on insisting on posting misleading info, then backtracking on it and pretending you knew all along. The point is, you originally claimed that a non-illegal-immigrant needs 3 years of residency; they do not. I want that well understood.</p>
<p>I happen to find it preposterous that illegal immigrants are given the institutional benefits that they do. All that does is attract continued illegal traffic into the State, a state that can ill afford to continue to play Santa Claus. (As opposed to possibly other states with stricter eligibility requirements for their state systems.)</p>
<p>But the bigger, overriding point is that illegal or legal, an Open Door policy does not begin to describe the irresponsible liberality of a State with no known plan to pay. Try open door, open windows, open escape hatch, open safe, and the alarm in unarmed position.</p>
<p>Epiphany, I misunderstood you. What more do you want?</p>
<p>I provided links to everything I said, including links that supported what you said. </p>
<p>There is trash talking about illegal immigrants and that was what I was responding too.</p>
<p>I agree with you about poor students and pell grants.</p>
<p>I did not know all along what you were talking about.</p>
<p>Fine. A legal immigrant does not need to be here for 3 years.</p>
<p>Illegal immigrants in colleges is a bogus issue. I hope that’s clear. ;)</p>
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<p>But the fact that they are taking up any spots other than Merced’s will be a bone of contention for an awful lot of families, rightly so. (And no, it’s not a “net win for society.” That has been demonstrated recently with hard numbers. Illegal immigrants are, and have been for at least 2 years, a net drain on the U.S. economy.) And make no mistake that they do take up spots other than at Merced.</p>
<p>I don’t think you’re following, post by post, my argument at all. You are jumping around all over the place with your fixation on residency requirement. I am telling you that benefits to illegal immigrants are one of the MANY, emphasize MANY, gigantic expenditures which have gotten CA in the situation it is in. Those benefits include higher education (comm. college is also higher ed) but are hardly limited to higher ed. They reap huge benefits in and out of the school system, in ways much too long to list on this thread. That is to distinguish CA from other states who are wisely less liberal (read: squandering) with their citizens tax dollars.</p>
<p>This is as opposed to any unfinished schooling on the part of a few Pell grantees. There is no comparison in the expenditure levels. It’s phony scapegoating.</p>
<p>epiphany, are you talking to me now?</p>
<p>Because, I support pell grants and I don’t say anything negative about pell grant students.</p>
<p>If you have any links about illegal immigrants hurting the economy (except opinion pieces), I will be glad to read them.</p>
<p>If illegal immigrants make up 1% of the population in colleges, I don’t see that number as material.</p>
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<p>dstark,</p>
<p>What would be a “material” number to you? If there are 3 million students enrolled in CA colleges, and 30,000 are illegal immigrants (1%), then throwing out a randomly selected, but reasonable estimate of $10,000 per year subsidy in taxpayer funds per student, then that would be $30 million per year that it costs CA taxpayers to send these students to college.</p>
<p>It depends on what kind of return on investment we get for those numbers.</p>
<p>And your $10,000 number is too high.
Most of these students are going to community colleges and the marginal cost for each student isn’t close to $10,000.</p>
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<p>It would reasonable to assume that we get NO return on those numbers, because illegal immigrants are not eligible to work in the U.S.</p>
<p>But I thought they did and took American jobs away. :)</p>
<p>""Under state law, nonresidents who are illegal immigrants must have attended high school in state for a minimum of three years, have graduated from a California high school or attained the equivalent, and filed an affidavit confirming these requirements.</p>
<p>“And if you are indeed undocumented you have to show that you are in the process of being legalized,” added Nunes.</p>
<p>The affidavit also requires applicants to state that they have filed an application to legalize their immigration status or will file an application as soon as they are eligible to do so"</p>
<p>Here is info on cc fees:</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.highereducation.org/reports/calcc/calcc.pdf[/url]”>http://www.highereducation.org/reports/calcc/calcc.pdf</a>.</p>
<p>So $20 per credit hour buys $400 worth of education. My $10K per year estimate sounds reasonable.</p>
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<p>You thought right! And they take class seats and taxpayer funds for college away, too!</p>
<p>No Bay. Uh Uhhh.</p>
<p>Those are average costs.</p>
<p>Once your fixed costs are covered, the cost to educate a student plummets.</p>
<p>Are the buildings being built to educate illegal immigrants? The land costs? The administration costs? </p>
<p>So is the return zero, or do these illegal immigrants work? Plus, don’t the y have to become legal to get the tuition breal? That’s what the law says?</p>
<p>dstark,
I feel like you are acting naive and grasping at straws here. I know you know what is happening in CA. Why do you try to deny it?</p>
<p>“It is ideology over rationality. If rationality prevailed, the clear advantages to society in making higher education as affordable as possible to anyone motivated to achieve would win the day.”</p>
<p>Overlooking the obvious condescensions here - and attempting to take the rational road - why further exploit countries such as Mexico by seducing their (presumably) best and brightest with subsidized (ie, resident tuition) higher education here? And by the way, would someone familiar with the tuition at the finest Universities in (for example) Mexico, please inform if our kids are provided similar resident discounts there? Finally, taking a lower (ie, irrational) road, can we EVER repay our debt to our neighbors to the (south, for example) for doing that which we seem incapable of now? Maybe we can’t flip our own burgers, but one would think the least we could do is find enough young adults “motivated to achieve” to fill our public universities.</p>
<p>Because it’s 30 million bucks according to your numbers and around $180 million according to your link. (and your number is really 300 million).</p>
<p>And the state economy is over 1.5 TRILLION dollars, and the state government spends over 130 billion dollars a year.</p>
<p>[The</a> Daily Bruin - Beyond borders](<a href=“http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/stories/2004/oct/25/beyond-borders0/]The”>http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/stories/2004/oct/25/beyond-borders0/)</p>
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<p>I’m glad for Nora. She will contribute to society and our investment in her will pay off.</p>