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1) Ph.D. rankings, which is a placeholder for faculty quality
2) Undergrad rankings, which have a trickle down from Ph.D. but no 1:1 correlation
3) specific area of study
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They are all related. Berkeley has stronger, deeper faculty as a whole => stronger PhD programs as a whole => stronger undergrad academic programs as a whole than UCLA...which means not knowing what the specific area of study, Berkeley likely has the stronger academic program to suit the OPs needs.</p>
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in MBA, where UCLA was higher ranked than Cal for 30 years up until about 6-8 years ago.
<p>Yeah, but Anderson was several places above Haas in 2000 survey, and all the way back into the 1960s, then all at once, several places below in 2002... who knows...</p>
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Berkeley likely has the stronger academic program to suit the OPs needs.
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<p>By what, 2 spots? Unless the OP is looking for a program that UCLA doesn't offer, or engineering or something, the ranking differences are so miniscule that it doesn't matter. Unless, of course, he's going to be the typical Cal student on a prestige trip (in which case my fellow Bruins and I would be glad to have him go to Berkeley instead).</p>
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freshman student achievement tells you nothing about a university's faculty or academic program offerings.
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We had 2 Rhodes Scholars this year, and believe it or not, claim our share of Nobel Laureates as well. Michael Dukakis teaches an undergraduate course; one of my professors next quarter, Jared Diamond, won the pulitzer prize and may be the most famous geologist of the modern era. Like Cal, UCLA offers its fair share of faculty and student accomplishments. I'm sure the OP will not fail to be disappointed in that regard, at either school.</p>
<p>Oh, and we're first to 100 NCAA titles. Perhaps if Cal stopped counting its accomplishments and started moving forward (like on a new stadium, for example), it could make up some ground on the 70+ championship difference ;)</p>
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Unless the OP is looking for a program that UCLA doesn't offer, or engineering or something, the ranking differences are so miniscule that it doesn't matter.
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vc, business and engineering are very popular majors.</p>
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Perhaps if Cal stopped counting its accomplishments and started moving forward (like on a new stadium, for example), it could make up some ground on the 70+ championship difference
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Cal is on its way to renovate the stadium...too bad you Bruins still have to drive 20 miles to see home games. UCLA needs to start being original and stop stealing (fight song, mascot, colors) from its older brother...it seems UCLA has the inferiority complex. ;)</p>
<p>Berkeley is the <em>academic</em> flagship, period. Nothing in our lifetime is likely to change that. I am quite satisfied that one of my alma maters (UCLA) is superior to Berkeley is a few select fields, and just behind it in most... still top 15 in almost everything which is just fine...</p>
<p>As you go on to say, academics is not the sole decision criterion for the quality of a university experience. there are many, many other non-prestige/ranking attributes of UCLA that (to me) far outweigh the minor academic prestige gap.</p>
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Cal finally decided to step it up is my best guess. It's MBA ranking always stuck out like a pair of brown shoes at a formal.
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<p>In the old days (not sure if true today), the Cal undergrad biz program brought down its Grad school ranking due to class sizes. Many of the intro classes, Accounting 1, for example, were comprised of both undergrad and grad students, the only difference being the course number (100 series for undergrad, 200 series for grad); but, yet they were the exact same class. As a result, Biz grad school had a much higher student/faculty ratio than B schools w/o undergrad, or privates who just had smaller classes in general. That high ratio was a killer for rankings.</p>
<p>The general environment at Cal is very liberal, almost borderline socialist. Cal students are comprised of mainly openly gay PETA loving hippies, potsmokers, and jaded competitive boring study robots. The surrounding area of Berkeley is notorious for its dirty bums and sketch neighborhood, although this is true of many colleges, but UCLA is atleast situated in a cleaner location. I find the women at UCLA to be a lot better looking. I must admit though that Berkeley is slightly more prestigious. UCLA has the better food, weather, social scene, and school spirit.</p>
<p>I've attended and have a fond spot in my heart for aspects of both schools, cultural and academic, but the Berkeley food scene utterly pwns UCLA. No contest.</p>
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Cal is on its way to renovate the stadium...too bad you Bruins still have to drive 20 miles to see home games.
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<p>It may take us 20 minutes to get to the Rose Bowl, but at least it doesn't take us 50 years (your anniversary is coming!!) to get there.</p>
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i was told ucla had the better food than cal's....can someone else give an opinion about the food?
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Delicious. We just passed Cornell this year, and are now ranked #1 in the nation in that category (pretty impressive considering Cornell has its own culinary school).</p>
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I am quite satisfied that one of my alma maters (UCLA) is superior to Berkeley is a few select fields, and just behind it in most... still top 15 in almost everything which is just fine...
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Fair enough. I'm just not one who thinks that coming in second or third is winning.</p>
<p>As a Cal student myself, your characterization of the student body as mainly “openly gay, PETA loving hippies, potsmokers, and jaded competitive boring study robots” is completely inaccurate. It’s not the 60s anymore. Sure we do have some of all of those, but most students don’t fall into any of those categories. Trying to stereotype Cal students in any way will ultimately lead to failure. It simply can’t be done. There are all types of people on this campus. For example, I am a conservative Republican and I have found many other conservatives here too.</p>
<p>Cassielam, please do try to make it up here for a visit before you make your final decision. It is definitely true that you should try to see what Berkeley is really like before you decide. I was accepted to both, so I also had to make that tough choice. If you have any specific questions I’d be happy to answer them, but in general I will say that I love being at Berkeley and haven’t regretted my decision for a second. It isn’t nearly as nerdy or boring as you may have heard.</p>
<p>And BTW, regarding UCLA, there is a reason that whenever their teams come to town our favorite chant is “Berkeley rejects! clap-clap-clapclapclap!” ;) Go Bears!</p>
<p>Evidently you haven't been to the part of LA that UCLA occupies -- 4 miles from the ocean, rolling hills, sandwiched in between Brentwood, Bel-Air and Beverly Hills, next to some of the most expensive (non San Francisco, Tokyo, Manhattan, Paris, London or Hong Kong) real estate in the world. Fortunately on the fourth side of the compass, due south of campus, one finds West LA, where there is relatively more affordable housing for those choosing to live off campus.</p>
<p>AV -- just as you were accepted to both, most who are accepted to one are accepted to the other. The stats are so close (I'm referring only to Undergrad... Berkeley Ph.D. programs are on another level) that it is silly to claim superiority... what's the SAT differential... 35 points?? Seriously.</p>
<p>I was playing around yesterday with a grid on collegelurker.com... if you know what I mean :). Of their 15 or so measures of each campus, I noticed four that I thought were most important, and created my own weighted average of the scores 1-10 for: Academics (60%), weather (10%), surrounding city (20%) and athletics spirit (10%). I chose to ignore all their other metrics like quality of food, parking, security, etc.</p>
<p>Do this yourself for UCLA and Berkeley. I scored Berkeley 9/7/8/8 on the four. I scored UCLA 8/9/9/10. Use your own scores, your own weighting, and maybe even pick a couple of other attributes about a school you think are important, and just score it out. By my attributes/weighting, UCLA comes out #2 in the country only behind Stanford for offering the atmosphere in which I would want to spend four years. Who knows, maybe you think the Oakland weather is superior to UCLA weather... different strokes. YOu may also prefer Berkeley/Oakland to Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Brentwood and Santa Monica.</p>