UCLA v. Berkeley

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Okay, so I know that there have been tons of UCLA vs. Berkeley threads out there, but I still need more information before deciding which one is right for me.</p>

<p>When I first visited UCLA, I thought it was not only a beautiful campus but also a convenient one. 20 minutes to Westwood.</p>

<p>On the other hand, however, I am not sure if it is because I visited UCLA first before Berkeley, but when I saw Berkeley campus, it was fairly intimidating. Everything was so spread out.</p>

<p>I wanted to do Pre-Med, but I am not sure whether UCLA or Berkeley have the better science department. I've heard that UCLA has better biology departments? but I don't have any proof to back that up. Moreover, I heard that as a UCLA undergrad, it is hard to get into UCLA med school because they normally take students from other colleges? Also, is it harder go get classes/change major in UCLA than it is in Berkeley? </p>

<p>I have asked many people for advice, and most people tell me to just go with my gut feeling. However, a part of me still feel that the academic prestige of the school is important as well. I'm torn because I love UCLA's environment, but the prestige of Berkeley is extremely alluring.</p>

<p>Please give me suggestions on what I should do.</p>

2

<p>I am in a similar dilemma (UCLA v. Berkeley, but for humanities) so you are not alone! People tell me to go with my "gut feeling" too, but my so-called gut feeling changes every day. So I can't help much, but I would advise you not to let Cal's prestige influence your decision a lot. It can be a factor, but make a small one. Who says UCLA isn't prestigious? But even so, I understand the allure of "prestige," but I don't think it's the best idea to have it be one of the main reasons for attending.</p>

<p>And ultimately, academics at the schools are comparable. One school may have a slight edge over the other in certain areas, but in the end...they're both good. I would say it's more important to consider environment over academics in this case, because you really can't go wrong.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
I wanted to do Pre-Med, but I am not sure whether UCLA or Berkeley have the better science department. I've heard that UCLA has better biology departments?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nah, this is almost certainly false. If anything, Berkeley has the better science departments. </p>

<p>But of course, simply having a strong science department alone doesn't mean that much to the average undergrad. After all, when you're just an undergrad, you're only going to be learning the basics. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Moreover, I heard that as a UCLA undergrad, it is hard to get into UCLA med school because they normally take students from other colleges?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, I believe the largest cohort at UCLA med school consists of former UCLA undergrads. Of course, this is highly influenced by the fact that UCLA undergrads will tend to apply to UCLA med, and if they get in, are disproportionately likely to go there as opposed to going to some other med school. {After all, once you get used to an area, you tend not to want to leave.} </p>

<p>Having said all that, I still would give the edge to Berkeley, for the extra prestige. Granted, prestige isn't everything, but it is useful to have in case you need it.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
and in general, is as prestigious as Harvard, Stanford and MIT.

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</p>

<p>Well, I wouldn't go quite that far. Especially in comparing to Harvard. Let's face it. NO school has the brand name of Harvard. Whether we like it or not, Harvard is Harvard.</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
No way. Berkeley is more prestigious than UCLA, and in general, is as prestigious as Harvard, Stanford and MIT. UCLA is an excellent school but it is definitely not as prestigious as Berkeley. For undrgrad, Michigan and UVa are even more prestigious than UCLA.

[/quote]

UVA is not a better school than UCLA - I don't care what US News tells you. Go to Europe or Asia and ask them what they think about UCLA. UCLA is internationally known as one of the best public schools in the world. Berkeley is slightly more prestigious than UCLA, but in the end, it's not going to make a difference when you are looking for a job (unless it's Berkeley's Haas) or applying to grad school. And Berkeley is not on the same level as Harvard, Stanford, or MIT.</p>

<p>Looking through your post history, I can see that you've tried to pimp up Berkeley's names on a number of other forums...

[quote]
^ Dude, go to Cal. It's one of the best school on earth, seriously. It's reputation extends all throughout the world. You would be surprised how a Cal degree is pretty valued in Africa, Asia and Europe. Only Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, Stanford and possibly Yale and MIT can claim such a feat. JHU is an excellent school, but reputation-wise, it's not even close.</p>

<p>Save those bucks. Go to Cal. Win Nobel. Be a pillar of knowledge. Pioneer change in the world. Good luck!

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</p>

<p>On Cal vs. MIT

[quote]
Check the salary of grads of both schools and compare. Check out the places/cities. Check out the cost. these are the things that can be your deciding factors because as far as prestige goes, they're pretty much the same whether in the US or abroad, in engineering.

[/quote]

[quote]
^ For undergrad, yes, but only a for bit. But for grad school, that's very questionable.</p>

<p>MIT, Berkeley and Stanford are very close to each other -- reputatio-wise --that it's hard to tell which is the number one among the 3 of them. then there's Caltech, UMich and CMU that are very close behind in terms of reputation, research output and quality of graduates.

[/quote]

[quote]
Cambridge, of course. I would think twice if it were Stanford, Berkeley or MIT but McGill is not even close.

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</p>

<p>Do you see how ridiculous you look?</p>

6

<p>thank you thank you, it's been helpful... keep them coming.</p>

7

<p>As a grad of UCLA, a close associate of many Cal grads, and a grad student at UCSD, I can make a few observations.</p>

<p>First off, 99% of people couldn't care less how much more prestigious Cal is in academic circles. Cal and UCLA are generally seen as comparable universities these days thanks to a number of factors. Most employers don't care if the Cal _____ department is 5 ranks ahead of UCLA's. It's just not an issue.</p>

<p>That, and prestige's value is somewhat fleeting in the long-run. Yes, it will help with the first degree, but then again, there are very few (if any) places that will hire you from Cal that won't hire you from UCLA. An econ BA from UCLA is about the same thing as one from Cal as far as most people are concerned. </p>

<p>Seriously, most people, this forum excepted, don't know/care/think about the differences. UCLA is well-respected in a lot of circles, and you will close no doors by going there. Call me a shill if you want, but keep in mind that I'm willing to pump up Cal whenever I think it deserves it. In this case, it's not really that moment.</p>

8

<p>More ruminations from this grad student...</p>

<p>
[quote]
I've heard that UCLA has better biology departments? but I don't have any proof to back that up.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, Cal definitely has an edge in biology. UCLA's top 15, Cal's top 10 (5?)</p>

<p>But who cares? Most pre-meds are never going to need the super awesome resources that a top research university will offer. They need a lab to work in to do some lab/clinical work, classes to meet the pre-med requirements, and a rigorous enough education to do well on the MCAT.</p>

<p>Trust me, if you got a 35+ on the MCAT, it won't matter if you went to UCLA or Penn State. Now, you're very unlikely to do this, but hey, I knew someone who pulled off a 38 at UCLA...</p>

<p>
[quote]
Moreover, I heard that as a UCLA undergrad, it is hard to get into UCLA med school because they normally take students from other colleges?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is one of those little urban legends that won't die. No, it's not true. Not at all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, is it harder go get classes/change major in UCLA than it is in Berkeley?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No.</p>

9

<p>joshua007,</p>

<p>You don't know my circle, and I'd appreciate it if you don't make any such claims.</p>

<p>My circle ranges from Saga, Japan to Washington, DC. We'll use DC, however, as it's probably one of the best examples of a town where "cred" can make or break you.</p>

<p>UCLA and Berkeley are not seen as drastically different. I've met just as many UCLA grads working for important agencies and organizations as Berkeley grads. And by important, I mean Brookings, US State Dept., Commerce, FBI, CIA, DIA, and DHS.</p>

<p>Okay, so DHS isn't that big of a deal, but anyway...</p>

<p>I admit, my circle is somewhat concentrated in political, academic, and intelligence (as in government, not actual) circles. But I've had no problem getting my foot in the door at any agency you can name-- and that's with my "less prestigious" degree.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I think UCLA is a good school, despite the many bad reviews you'll read about it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What, you think that Berkeley doesn't get bad reviews? Just look on this board alone and you'll find a few. </p>

<p>Heck, I can show you bad reviews of Ivies, too. That doesn't mean much.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
You've already gone tooooooo far from the topic. And the funny thing is, I did not even intend to say other schools do not have bad reviews. I only meant that UCLA is a very good school despite the bad reviews about it. So, if anything, that should be a complement for UCLA. Tsk-tsk-tsk...

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</p>

<p>Backhanded compliments like yours are usually seen as rude at best, patronizing at worst. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Yes, you're correct, I don't know your circles, cause if I do, you would not have said Berkeley's reputation is just = to UCLA's. My circles would have kept you stick with the facts. And the fact is, Berkeley is > than UCLA.</p>

<p>BTW, I did not make any such claims about your circle. I have no reason to do that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Please re-read what I said. I never said that Cal's reputation is equal to that of UCLA's. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Surveys are available on the web, please try to read them, let alone use them. At least, you can't say this whole thing just came from me, and you can't say I'm biased.

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</p>

<p>I know all of the rankings quite well. However, that's not what I'm arguing.</p>

<p>Please re-read my argument. I'm saying that the prestige, at least in terms of return on the dollar spent for the degree, is not going to be incredibly important when comparing UCLA to Cal. You are not going to find any doors opened by a Cal degree that a UCLA degree will close on you. That's all I'm saying. </p>

<p>
[quote]
You may debate with me that reputation does not matter or whatever. But this discussion is about pretige and I answered it as it was intended to be answered. Saying prestige is irrelevant in this disccusion is a diversion and a lame excuse to divert the topic.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, the OP is not asking about prestige per se. That's established. The OP is asking how much it matters.</p>

<p>
[quote]
OK, you must be SOMEBODY then ah? But even in political circles can it have many circles. That's the point I'm trying to make. Unless you're saying YOU are everything about the political world in American, then I will tke your words weigh more than those available surveys do. </p>

<p>I just wonder why no particular survey would conform with your claim if you're that somebody? No offense meant, but, I'm just confused as to the contradictions between your claims and the surveys.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wait...are you referring to the rankings like USNWR and THES, or what? What "surveys?" </p>

<p>I'm not saying that I'm intimately involved in many political circles. I'm saying that I have enough experience in them to know that a BA from Berkeley isn't going to win you jobs that a BA from UCLA is going to exclude you from. Seriously, most people have never read most of the rankings out there-- included well-educated people.</p>

11

<p>joshua007,</p>

<p>Nobody is arguing that Berkeley doesn't have an edge on UCLA in terms of academics.</p>

<p>But in the "real world," the question is how much it matters. That's where the difference, at least in my experience (and those of many others) is thin at best. Yes, Berkeley is ranked higher than UCLA in almost everything.</p>

<p>So what?</p>

<p>Again, people don't sit down and look to hire someone based on whether their degree comes from Cal or UCLA. That is a fleeting issue at best. It might raise an eyebrow or two. After that, the question is, "What can you do for me?"</p>

<p>I chose to attend my current program (UCSD for an MA in public policy/IR) over other higher ranked programs (JHU SAIS, for one) because of cost. Now, people ask me, "Will it matter? Won't it be harder to get a job?" Plus, I take the same courses here, and I can produce the same level of work after I get my degree here. That's what matters once you're outside the gates. Not who got a Nobel in what from where. </p>

<p>So really, the short answer is "No." The long answer is "No, because I'm still me no matter where I get my MA." I can get my interview and job no matter where I go. Despite the prestige differential. That's why it doesn't matter.</p>

<p>And that's why the slight edge that Cal has on UCLA (and in the grand scheme of things, it's VERY slight at the margin) is meaningless to a good student.</p>

<p>All the rankings in the world have no meaning whatsoever once you sit down for an interview.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
This is being too judgemental. I don't knwo what to say anymore other than --> I will not respond on this thread anymore. </p>

<p>But allow me to say this for one last time before I am accused as biased.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh, and nobody's accusing you of anything. We're ALL biased. I'm biased against prestige mongering, for one. That much is evident. I'm also biased in favor of my alma mater. I make no claims otherwise.</p>

<p>But a "compliment" like, "Oh, people think you're mom's a jerk, but I think she's okay" are generally considered backhanded and rude. Every school has its lumps. Announcing them and then turning around and saying, "oh, but it's actually a good school even though tons of people think it's doodoo" is not really going to endear you to many people.</p>

<p>I mean, if I turned around and linked you to all the complaints about Cal, and then said, "But despite that, Cal's not bad," you'd probably think I was trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.</p>

<p>That's all I meant to express.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
You are a very uninformed guy if you honestly believe that "NO school has the brand name of Harvard".

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</p>

<p>Is that a flame? Would you like to get banned? </p>

<p>As far as whether I am 'uninformed' or not, let's just say this. I will very happily compare resumes with you ANYTIME. We'll see which one of us is really uninformed. You don't know anything about me, pal. So back off. </p>

<p>
[quote]
There are many, many countries around the world where Oxford and Cambridge are seen as prestigious ( equal to ) as Harvard.

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</p>

<p>
[quote]
There are many places around the world where MIT, Berkeley and Stanford are seen stronger than Harvard.

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</p>

<p>Hey, there are places where the local state university is seen (strangely) as "stronger" than or "as prestigious" than Harvard. But that's not the point. The point is who has the OVERALL better brand name as seen by an aggregate number of people. </p>

<p>
[quote]
There are many people who believe Stanford has a stronger MBA than Harvard's. </p>

<p>There are many people who believe that Yale is stronger than harvard. </p>

<p>There are many people who believe that Princeton's undergrad is better and stronger than Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Completely 100% irrelevant. We're not talking about who is viewed as 'stronger' within particular programs. We are talking about BRAND NAME ONLY. Even most people at Yale, Princeton, and Stanford will concede that Harvard has a bigger brand name. If there is anything that anybody at ANY school can agree upon, it is that Harvard has the killer brand name. They may quibble about who actualy has stronger programs, or which is a better school for certain students, or all that. But that's completely irrelevant to who has the bigger BRAND NAME. </p>

<p>
[quote]
But let's not talk about Harvard's prestige on this board because this is supposed to be for Cal and UCLA.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So why did YOU bring it up in the first place? In post #4, you were the one who first brought up Harvard's prestige. Now you're saying that we shouldn't talk about Harvard's prestige?</p>

14

<p>Wow... has this thread gone off track... </p>

<p>To the OP: Both Cal and UCLA are going to offer you awesome undergrad experiences. Berk may have a slight advantage in rankings and the "wow" factor in IMO, but at the point you are both at right now consider the following.<br>
Which University are do you feel most comfortable at taking into consideration the location (Nor Cal vs. So Cal, the UCLA campus vs the Cal campus and surrounding areas, Course Selection, Majors and Requirements, Semesters vs Quarters etc...<br>
Wherever you choose is going to be where you will make your life for the next four years. Being happy in your surroundings is an important component that will contribute to your academic success.<br>
It's a tough choice, both are great Universities that give offer you tremendous opportunities. Neither are going to guarantee you success getting a high MCat score or getting into Med School or any Grad Program. Both will offer you the opportunities you need to get where you want to go though at the end of 4 years undergrad.<br>
Make your choice of undergrad from which is going to give you the best 4 year experience... it's really not something anyone else can answer for you and doesn't have a lot to do with stats and rankings though IMO. Good luck with your decision.</p>

15

<p>For once, I have to agree with sakky -- no school, not even Stanford, has Harvard's rep. ('Course, that speaks nothing of quality, though this is irrelevant.) And I'm a firm Cal-supporter, as my posts can attest. =p</p>

16

<p>CA2006,</p>

<p>Threads like this usually do go off track. Since there are about 50 of them up right now, I see no problem letting a few get "interesting."</p>

<p>:rolleyes:</p>

17

<p>Berkeley is known as the number one public school in the US. I'd say go by the atmosphere though, and where you want to live for the next four years. I personally like socal better, but that's because I'm from long beach/san diego.</p>

18

<p>WOW, this is getting rather heated. I can say that aside from all the polls etc I grew up hearing and thinking that UCLA was a much bigger school, comparable to some private schools such as stanford. the "LA" name is attached to it which I think offers something that is also well known. I am not sure as many people know about CAL Berekely as some of you think. I also had heard of CAL Berk but it was not until I entered the college scene and started researching that I found out what kind of name it had. Through merely word of mouth in my average life I had a much better impression of UCLA. bring on the flames now.</p>