<p>The difference in "prestige" between UCLA and Berkeley barely exists and I even think the argument could be made that it can go either way. I think UCLA's a lot more fun though.</p>
<p>^ Berkeley has much more renowned and "distinguished" academic programs than UCLA does. That is where this "prestige" is derived.</p>
<p>A survey of over 2000 academics were asked rank a university's academic programs on a scale of 1 being "marginal" to 5 being "distinguished". The results constitute USNWR's Peer Assessment Score.</p>
<p>Berkeley = 4.8 (tied with Yale)
UCLA = 4.2 (tied with Carnegie Mellon and U North Carolina).</p>
<p>I would go to Berkeley unless you absolutely did not like the environment, city etc. and you would not be happy there. It is still the more prestigious of the two.</p>
<p>UCLA, Ph.D. -- what does prestige have to do with anything?</p>
<p>Yeah, I know about USNWR's little "reputation survey," but it still fails to capture public opinion a lot of the time. If you ask academic people, they'll probably tell you Berkeley has a better reputation, but if you ask everyone else, I wouldn't be surprised if they said UCLA. UCLA has a lot of things going for it that Berkeley doesn't.</p>
<p>wow i'm in exactly the same position. i'm oos and just visited ucla and cal this weekend. to be completely honest i felt much more comfortable at ucla; however, my parents are pressuring me to go to berkeley just because it's more prestigious. i liked the atmosphere at ucla more so than berkeley. plus ucla is in westwood near beverly hills, holleywood, bel air, in other words the high society of la. it's a great area and the campus is beautiful and friendly. the weather at cal was a lot different than at ucla, much cooler by the bay. obviously the student body is noticably more liberal, plus the surrounding berkeley area is no where near as nice as westwood/beverly hills. there are bums on practically every corner in berkeley constantly nagging for money...it gets kind of annoying after a while.</p>
<p>so pretty much i'm in the same situation. while the prestige of cal is tempting i just don't feel "at home" there. it's going to be nearly impossible for me to choose where i want to spend the next 4 yrs in just 15 days :(</p>
<p>If you go to UCLA, you're not gonna think, "Man, I should've gone to Berkeley for the prestige." However, if you go to Berkeley and don't like it, you definitely might think, "Wow, what am I doing here, I should've just gone to the university I really liked."</p>
<p>
[quote]
i liked the atmosphere at ucla more so than berkeley. plus ucla is in westwood near beverly hills, hollywood, bel air, in other words the high society of la. it's a great area and the campus is beautiful and friendly.
[/quote]
DukeBlueDevils,
I agree. There are lots of friendly people at UCLA. It is quite noticeable when you visit the campus.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A survey of over 2000 academics were asked rank a university's academic programs on a scale of 1 being "marginal" to 5 being "distinguished". The results constitute USNWR's Peer Assessment Score.</p>
<p>Berkeley = 4.8 (tied with Yale)
UCLA = 4.2 (tied with Carnegie Mellon and U North Carolina).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And yet academics interviewed on NPR said themselves that it's hard to say what this ranking actually means... if anything. The problem with these sort of soupy chockablock measures is that they try to capture too much variation between universities than may actually exist on the margin.</p>
<p>I do not deny that Berkeley has a better reputation, but I deny the accuracy of that particular metric on an absolute scale.</p>
<p>^ Accurate or not, it's still the only known broad-based opinion poll for academic universities. How do you argue with the collective opinion of over 2,000 academics?</p>
<p>I am ALSO in this same situation..out of state, choosing between UCLA and Cal. I am really torn. I however, really did like the atmosphere at Cal but want a social school. I liked them both a lot and now I just dont know what to do!</p>
<p>I am not from California. Where i live Berkeley is overall considered more prestigious than UCLA. By most accounts where i have read them, Berkeley is the #1 public university in this country. However, they both are excellent schools. Go where you feel the most comfortable. Either way it's a win win for you. Congratulations!</p>
<p>Cal is very social. At least football games are on campus. IMO, Cal is more social than UCLA because Cal is in a student-oriented city instead of gentrified West LA...not much affordable fun for a student there.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How do you argue with the collective opinion of over 2,000 academics?
[/quote]
Well, there's hundreds of millions of people living in America...and I think it's pretty safe to say that the academics they survey aren't representiative of the American population at all. </p>
<p>Also, I think the response rate for that survey is like 51%. That means about half of the academics you're talking about know it's BS.</p>
<p>
[quote]
^ Accurate or not, it's still the only known broad-based opinion poll for academic universities. How do you argue with the collective opinion of over 2,000 academics?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Very easily. Most academics know their own fields and departments, but that doesn't make them equipped to say that WUSTL is an 5 ranked school while Rice is a 4. They simply don't have that kind of broad, nationwide cognizance of overall institutions.</p>
<p>I mean, I'm fairly savvy about programs in my field, but I couldn't really tell you whether you should rank Tufts over GWU. I doubt most of my profs could do so with certainty, either. And this is a fairly small field!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cal is very social. At least football games are on campus. IMO, Cal is more social than UCLA because Cal is in a student-oriented city instead of gentrified West LA...not much affordable fun for a student there.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>OK, now this just borders on pure fallacy. There is plenty of cheap fun and restaurants in the area. From Santa Monica to Venice, there is plenty to do in the area that buses will take you to. Sorry, but if you can't find something to do in LA, then you're either from NYC or just hopeless...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Well, there's hundreds of millions of people living in America...and I think it's pretty safe to say that the academics they survey aren't representiative of the American population at all.
[/quote]
Yes, and hundreds of millions of Americans are qualified to give an educated assessment of the quality of schools nationwide?!
When you're making a big purchase like a car, normally you consult expert opinion...not the aggregate opinion of millions of Joe Blows in the street.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, I think the response rate for that survey is like 51%. That means about half of the academics you're talking about know it's BS.
[/quote]
Hmm...51% return on a fairly detailed survey is quite good if you ask pollsters. I don't think all the academics that didn't return the survey think its BS...they maybe didn't have the time to complete it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
OK, now this just borders on pure fallacy. There is plenty of cheap fun and restaurants in the area. From Santa Monica to Venice, there is plenty to do in the area that buses will take you to. Sorry, but if you can't find something to do in LA, then you're either from NYC or just hopeless...
[/quote]
Same could be said for Berkeley...and I'd get to SF a lot quicker/cheaper and more efficiently on BART vs. being stuck in West LA traffic.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most academics know their own fields and departments, but that doesn't make them equipped to say that WUSTL is an 5 ranked school while Rice is a 4. They simply don't have that kind of broad, nationwide cognizance of overall institutions.</p>
<p>I mean, I'm fairly savvy about programs in my field, but I couldn't really tell you whether you should rank Tufts over GWU. I doubt most of my profs could do so with certainty, either. And this is a fairly small field!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Academics read journals, participate in academic conferences, academy membership, etc...they know better than the average public.
If they only rank the programs they know, that's fine...that's what the survey asks. They're asked to state on the survey if they don't know.</p>
<p>It's all in the USNWR description of PA score methodology.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Same could be said for Berkeley...and I'd get to SF a lot quicker/cheaper and more efficiently on BART vs. being stuck in West LA traffic.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I never said that Cal isn't awesome, though. I just don't think that Westwood, Venice, and Santa Monica are so out of reach as you suggest.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Academics read journals, participate in academic conferences, academy membership, etc...they know better than the average public.
If they only rank the programs they know, that's fine...that's what the survey asks. They're asked to state on the survey if they don't know.</p>
<p>It's all in the USNWR description of PA score methodology.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The people I do work with regularly say that USNWR's methodology, including PA, is crap. Ask around (I'm sure you may have, but still), and you'll probably find that most academics are wary of PA.</p>
<p>
[quote]
At least football games are on campus.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In a football stadium that is built directly on top of an earthquake fault! :)</p>