<p>"UCLA was also given the title of New Ivy and Berkeley wasn't."</p>
<p>New Ivy means nothing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UCLA was also given the title of New Ivy and Berkeley wasn't.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's because Berkeley has been Ivy caliber for a looooooong time. It's nothing new. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
UCLA is ranked #3 in Linguistics (my area along with management) nationally, and UCB is... maybe 10?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'll give you that linguistics is one of UCLA's strongest programs, but Berkeley's is ranked in the top 5 for the NRC ranking. In the Gourman ranking, it's #3, only after UCLA and Chicago. In examining the linguistics departments of both, they are both pretty equal; so there's not much of a gap in quality there, IMO. </p>
<p>At any rate, Berkeley was the first to establish a linguistics department in the US. :) (Even though Chicago likes to claim that it was the first--Berkeley's came way before, but was shut down for a while.)</p>
<p>Also, FWIW, the NRC ranking in the "five main areas" places Berkeley #1 for arts/humanities, and UCLA #11. If you want something more recent, the QS Top Universities in the world places Berkeley #2 for arts/humanities (only after Harvard), and UCLA #13. While that may seem like a somewhat large gap, (~10 spots each time), when you compare it to the vast majority of schools, the difference in quality isn't large.</p>
<p>my counselor today told me, its like choosing between a bmw and a mercedes. or the air force academy over westpoint. i thought that was really helpful.</p>
<p>Go to UCLA if its your fit. If you're focused on prestige, then I hate to break it to the other posters but outside of CA UCLA is not nearly as prestigious as Berkeley is among the general public. But UCLA does have a really nice campus, Berkeley's, while I think its beautiful, could use some improvement as far as nice pathways, landscaping etc like ucla. You'll do fine at either. One thing to keep in mine too is that in Berkeley you can actually afford to do things.....Westwood you will mostly windowshop.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, and hundreds of millions of Americans are qualified to give an educated assessment of the quality of schools nationwide?!
[/quote]
No - but prestige isn't about quality. It's about popularity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IMO, Cal is more social than UCLA because Cal is in a student-oriented city
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Berkeley is a more social city-- er--I mean socialist city.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley is a more social city-- er--I mean socialist city.
[/quote]
I'll agree with you on that...THE CITY GOVERNMENT is backward...just like a lot of liberal small cities. That doesn't mean the students - that make up a significant part of the population aren't social.</p>
<p>
[quote]
No - but prestige isn't about quality. It's about popularity.
[/quote]
Prestige is a combination of quality and exclusivity...Heck, CSU Long Beach or Northridge are popular - they have large student populations, but I wouldn't call them prestigious. A Toyota Camry is the most popular, widely selling car in America - would you consider it a prestigious model?. I think there is more to "prestige" than popularity.</p>
<p>so let's see when the new rankings come out, IMO UCLA has become increasingly more selective and a better school since 1995. But I guess thats my opionion, and I was thinking when I woke up this morning. In four years or even a year will the difference in a couple spots matter at all? I think we will all only care about this for another couple of weeks and then we'll make our choices and it'll all be good. Anymore?</p>
<p>^ Don't let my arguments for Cal's greater prestige sway you. You like UCLA's environment better and that's great...Go to UCLA and enjoy your experience.</p>
<p>bret, I also read that you got accepted to USC in the spring...if USC is cheaper for you, I would definitely consider it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
One thing to keep in mine too is that in Berkeley you can actually afford to do things.....Westwood you will mostly windowshop.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Unless Westwood has changed significantly since I was there, I don't get this.</p>
<p>There are tons of small eateries in Westwood, including Noodle Planet and the always amazing Stan's Donuts, multiple movie theaters showing everything from small movies to recent blockbusters, and fun places to shop at that are by no means outside of a student's budget (Aaahs, for example.) You even have a fantastic museum nearby (Hammer), and on-campus!</p>
<p>The only thing that Westwood lacks is a club. It even has an okay bar for the 21 and over crowd.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hate to break it to the other posters but outside of CA UCLA is not nearly as prestigious as Berkeley is among the general public.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hate to break it to the other posters, but outside of California not even Berkeley carries the same weight. Why would someone in NYC give a rat's arse about CA publics when there are great publics and even better private schools nearby? In the end, it matters very little anyway. Only on the microcosm of this little board do people spend hours and hours debating over school ranking. In the real world, it's whether you do your job. Telling your boss that Cal has a top 5 department in _____ won't get you that bonus.</p>
<p>Let's just say the city of Westwood is not as student-friendly as Berkeley is.</p>
<p>Westwood has large blvds. with tons of vehicle traffic, not as many off-campus cafes, and stores catering to students.</p>
<p>Berkeley is more pedestrian friendly/public transportation focused...has more shops, bookstores, and cafes than Westwood does. Berkeley is a college town. The L.A. megaopolis tramples through Westwood.</p>
<p>That is perhaps true, but people are on this thread making Westwood sound like a virtual desert for students-- which it is not. I agree that it's nowhere near as student-friendly as Berkeley, but there is still plenty to do in Westwood and no more than 20 minutes away from Westwood.</p>
<p>This is funny. I grew up in southern california and frequented the westside and westwood. I lived in the ghetto by USC. Now that my daughter is going to college this year, she has chosen Cal and will be attending there. Having evaluating both UCLA and Berkeley extensively, both campuses have alot of student life appeal. Westwood is westwood. Alot of eateries for all budgets(you can eat diddy reese every day if you're poor,unhealthy though), crowded as heck on the weekends. The difference these days is the area attracts high schoolers, college kids(not just UCLA, many kids from SC,LMU,Pepperdine...etc) and everyone else. Its not a true exclusive UCLA college town. Still fun and plenty to do. Berkeley is a different town. Its not going to attract people from surrounding areas. Who would want to go to an older downtown area with bums on every street corner? For cal students, its super close and once you get past the fact that bums are part of the town, there are plenty of places to eat and hang out at. So, for the most part its going to only be college kids and not people from the outskirts.</p>
<p>OKIDOKI -- those NRC rankings you post are not the most relevant... the most relevant are the "Non-Zero" score rankings. The Non-Zero scores don't penalize a school for not offering Ph.D.s in, for example, 7 of the 41 subject areas that comprise the scoring. For Non-Zero, Berkeley is #1 and UCLA about #11. </p>
<p>I'm very interested to see what has changed in 10-11 years when the NRC publishes the update in the Autumn.</p>
<p>just days after the socking reality that i got into ucla began seeping in, good news from Cal came. and u can probably guess what i'm thinking now, haha </p>
<p>yeah. i just visited ucla over the weekend also, stayed with a friend in his drom (no official tour thing, didn't know about it lol). i also checked out cal day the day before i left.</p>
<p>im about 15 min outside of berkeley so i'm a little hesitant to go there. i think that i'm secretly leaning towards la... but then again i feel more familiar with Cal. Furthermore, a few of my friends are going to Cal and really want me to come with them and few people i know are going to UCLA. Both schools are amazing, though, so i'm convinced that it's going to be impossible to make a wrong choice at this point.</p>
<p>i'm asuming that the academia at Cal and UCLA are virtually identical and really the decision is going to come down to which enviornment is more enriching. living in the dorm, i experiened staying up until crazy hours of the morning and the ucla social life, but what is the social life like at Cal? anyone know?</p>
<p>thanks.</p>
<p>UCLAorCal,</p>
<p>Congrats! I find it perfectly understandable your desire to go to UCLA...you're going away and experiencing life on your own...this is very exciting and I do encourage it. That being said, I love Cal...being from Socal it provided the perfect quirky, different environment for me...the same is likely true for you with UCLA.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but what is the social life like at Cal? anyone know?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The social life at Cal I can't imagine is much different from UCLA. I had my "dorm" friends and my "major" friends. Dorm friends for going out to the dining hall, having an academic discussion with people in other majors, dorm/floor parties, football games, basketball games, etc. My "major" friends I associated more with later...study groups, going to cafes, bars, restaurants, occassional frat parties, etc. </p>
<p>Cal can be as social as you want it to be. But with your parents living only 15 minutes away, you may have an urge to go home more frequently...which kind of ruins the social aspect, IMO.</p>
<p>
[quote]
im about 15 min outside of berkeley so i'm a little hesitant to go there. i think that i'm secretly leaning towards la... but then again i feel more familiar with Cal. Furthermore, a few of my friends are going to Cal and really want me to come with them and few people i know are going to UCLA. Both schools are amazing, though, so i'm convinced that it's going to be impossible to make a wrong choice at this point.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Get to LA. Be more than 15 minutes away from home. Avoid familiarity, even though if you stay on campus at Cal, you'll still find a whole different world.</p>
<p>If you're going to play hard at LA, learn to work hard too to balance it out. My best semester in college academically was also my heaviest partying semester. I'd blow out a Thursday, Friday and/or Saturday night and hunker down the rest of the week to get it done academically. Worked well.</p>
<p>UCLAorCal: I would also recommend UCLA for the same reasons posted above.</p>
<p>Americans in general, and especially Americans from comfortable suburbs, are notorious around the world for being insular and ignorant of the world around them. I know I was, living in middle class, then upper middle class neighborhoods in Socal until the whole family moved to Mexico City after 9th grade.</p>
<p>Living abroad is the best thing that ever happened to me. Your choice to live away from home will get you part of the experience I had.</p>
<p>ok thanks for imput</p>