UCLA vs. UCI vs. UCR

[theslowclap]

<p>Listen kid, I have a few questions for you.</p>

<ol>
<li>Have you been to any of these schools and actually studied there as a student?</li>
<li>Are you even in college?</li>
<li>Rate yourself on how objective you think your statements are.</li>
</ol>

<p>I’m probably not going to read your answers so be as snide as your kiddie heart desires. I just wanted you to answer these in case some poor boy or girl decides the next four years based on some misinformation. Good luck to the OP.</p>

<p>I agree with the Senior members who gave you a response here previously: go where you think you will do your best. The effects of the college you attend in itself is negligible. By the way, so you don’t think I’m saying that because I go to a “lesser ranked” school, I attend an Ivy League.</p>

[Listenkid]

<p>Let me tell you a personal story.
I was sitting in the office scrambling to finish writing the addresses of my colleges down on my envelopes that I was handing to my counselor for recommendations. Suddenly, I blanked. Was it Boston College or Boston University that was the good one. I looked up and quickly asked my counselor. “Real quick which is the good one Boston College or Boston University?” Instead of giving me the real answer which I needed at the time she told me “Whichever one is right for you.” She flat out refused to give me an answer due to her stubborn mindset that she had to stick to that collleges were not “better” but rather “different.”</p>

<p>I know you go to a Ivy, most of you here go to Ivy’s. Wanna know something more? I got rejected from the schools you guys applied to. I am going to either USC or UC Davis which is far below either of your schools (ranking wise.)</p>

<p>So why am I saying this? It is because its easier for YOU guys to be saying this from the top of the ladder. Its like asking an incredibly rich person “Does how rich you are born effect how much money you will make in the long run?” Guess what, the rich typically say. (Pssst, its no)</p>

<p>Is it just a coincidence that all of you here who are talking about “picking the school that feels right for you?” go to Ivys? </p>

<p>This guy here wants real, solid advice. Not a fair tale about going where you heart tells me. I am the father that if my son told me he wanted to be a painter, Id tell him to go get a real job. I know with your own son many of you guys would do the same, but when it comes to the internet and you are dealing with someone who’s future is unimportant to you, it is easy to spew self-satisfying garbage realizing that this guy will be looking at himself 4 years down the line among a row of graduates who he never fit in with cause most of them were 3.0 students back in high school and wishing he went to a respected place.</p>

<p>Let me give you my creditials in judging this situation. My mother is a Teacher, My father is a doctor, and my brother went to berkley and JH (For a non-medical grad). I personally have been accepted to davis, irvine, and riverside. I have studied the issue extensively.</p>

<p>When someone asks you to compare schools and you simply answer “Well whatever feels right” you aren’t helping. This man wants an answer, give it to him, and please dont feed him a fairy tale. I am not accusing you of being in knowledge, I am telling you that you need to be honest and realistic with the guy. </p>

<p>Here’s some DATA for you to look at. It comes from a reputable source, (The AAMC they are the ones who govern the MCAT and much of the medical school process)
It will tell you exactly how many kids each college sends to medical school.</p>

<p>Oh wait, what do you know. It shows numbers from dozens of universities but apparently UCR and UCI did not have enough applicants to even get on the list. </p>

<p>Lets be real here, UCLA, UCB, and JH U produce ten times the number of medical school students that Riverside does and you are telling me that you “shouldn’t look at that.”</p>

<p>P.S. Being a ■■■■■ on the forum for years and posting a link to your sticky each time someone asks a question as opposed to actually answering it does NOT make you into a “senior member.”</p>

[GoldShadow]

<p>

Lets be real here, UCLA, UCB, and JH U produce ten times the number of medical school students that Riverside does and you are telling me that you “shouldn’t look at that.”

Top students get into medical schools. There are larger numbers of top students at higher-ranked undergraduate universities. Therefore, higher ranked universities will have more students that go on to medical school. You haven’t stumbled on some secret or come to some great conclusion, you’ve simply stated the obvious.</p>

<p>

P.S. Being a ■■■■■ on the forum for years and posting a link to your sticky each time someone asks a question as opposed to actually answering it does NOT make you into a “senior member.”

Not the definition of a ■■■■■. We post links to stickies and other threads because these exact same questions have been asked a thousand times. That it’s “my sticky” is irrelevant, I compiled that list as a helpful resource for people that come in here and ask the same questions over and over (and for the great and knowledgeable members who answer them time and time again). It’s meant to be helpful for both new members or people with questions (since 95% of them are answered in those threads) and the people who provide answers (since they don’t have to repeat their answer for the 800th time).</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>1.) The reality is that the OP doesn’t really have any good choices among this list. I’ve said all along that the UC’s are terrible choices, and Hopkins is a pretty tough environment itself.</p>

<p>2.) GS makes three points, which he probably could have stated more fully for clarification.
(A) The direct effect of “name-branding” on medical school admissions is small. Probably detectable, but small in comparison to other aspects.
(B) It is not particularly important to go to a top-brand medical school, since that doesn’t matter to most doctors’ careers anyway.
(C) Because schools can easily manipulate their admissions percentages through a variety of tricks, this is not a very useful measure of their quality. Other measures are much better indicators.</p>

<p>These are all true statements.</p>

<p>For the record, my preferred indicator is average GPA of students admitted to medical school; the lower the better.</p>

<p>3.) With that said, you should pick the school that feels right for you – within a loose definition of quality. Unfortunately, Riverside probably doesn’t fall into this category. Feeling right is a good reason to choose LA over Berkeley, or vice-versa. Unless you have some kind of crucial family issue (e.g. sick parent or orphaned siblings), I would strongly recommend against Riverside.</p>

<p>If you do choose Riverside, the game is by no means over, however.</p>

<p>4.) You will notice that none of the posters here actually endorsed Riverside. What they objected to was the overstatement seen in posts 2, 11, and 13.</p>

<p>5.) Sometimes (Riverside vs. say, Penn) there is indeed a right answer. Usually most students who are asking for help understand this and have already restricted their choices in this light.</p>

<p>Therefore, the answer, “whichever school feels right to you” is absolutely correct, since most of the easy answers have already been taken off the table.</p>

[Listenkid]

<p>So what would you suggest. I understand it is the OP’s personal choice that he needs to make. But since hes asking for suggestion, what schools would you endorse, or would you just answer the question in an open-ended format.</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>My personal recommendation would probably be one of the “some others,” but it’s hard to say without knowing what they are.</p>

<p>As for his preference for staying in California, I can tell him that I fully understand – I applied ED to my local school as well. When I didn’t get in, I was devastated to have to go to a place which was culturally and socially very foreign to me…</p>

<p>…and it did wonders for my personal growth, independence, and community ties. I loved my four years there and would not trade it for anything. Seeing as much of the country as possible is a healthy part of growth, and in fact it’s probably one of the most important things I gained from college.</p>

[confused13]

<p>“The reality is that the OP doesn’t really have any good choices among this list. I’ve said all along that the UC’s are terrible choices, and Hopkins is a pretty tough environment itself”</p>

<p>What is wrong with the UCs, and what do you consider a “good choice”?</p>

<p>edit: I got into UCR, UCI, UCSD, UCB, UCLA, UofToronto, JHU, and CMC so far. Waiting on 2 ivies. Waitlisted at Caltech and Pomona.</p>

<p>About seeing other parts of the country/world… I’ve lived in different countries and traveled a great deal throughout America and the world in general. I understand the appeal of moving far away and “broadening one’s horizons” for people who have spent all their lives in one place, but as someone who travels frequently/has lived in different places I don’t think moving far for college is the only way to achieve that growth.</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>I think Pomona would be an excellent choice, actually. CMC is probably fine as well, although their orientation is very government-focused. And then the Ivies are all excellent programs as well, although Penn’s my favorite of the eight.</p>

<p>As for traveling, I have two separate points which I didn’t do a very good job of separating.</p>

<p>1.) Live somewhere culturally very different from your background. In fact, I’d deliberately seek out a place which is culturally very different.</p>

<p>For example, I’m a Chinese guy. So if I hypothetically had lived in Beijing, Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, and San Francisco, applying ED to Stanford (which I really did) would still mean that I had an extremely limited perspective on the world. (Which I also really did.) I would urge a kid like that to apply to Rice and Duke and WUSTL and Northwestern. If someone had lived in London, Paris, and NYC, I’d urge the kid to apply to Stanford and Pomona. If someone had lived in Dallas and Des Moines and Juneau, I’d urge him to consider Columbia. International living is fine, and vacations are fine, but they don’t replace a really culturally diverse experience within the US.</p>

<p>2.) It’s important to move far away for the purpose of independence and personal growth and plugging into the community. I know that had I gotten into Stanford (I live about eighty minutes away), I’d have been home for all the minor holidays; things would have been very different, socially, for me. The sense of being-on-your-own is very irreplaceable, and I always – always always always – urge kids to put faraway schools higher on their list than local schools.</p>

<p>Always.</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>Re: UC’s:

bluedevilmike: They’re large, competitive schools with literally nonexistent advising, a disproportionately premedical student body, and in UCB’s case, no nearby academic clinical facilities for patient exposure. Research at those places is phenomenal but hard for premeds to access relative to a smaller school. Add to that that students there tend to be obsessed with remaining in the highly selective UC system for medical school.

</p>

<p>

norcalguy: UCLA’s acceptance rate to med school is under 50%. Berkeley is a little better at around 60%.

</p>

<p>Admissions % isn’t a good metric, but gaps this large indicate something.</p>

<p>

bluedevilmike: UCB reports on only about 20% of their premedical student body. So you know that 12% of their premeds get in someplace, 8% get in noplace, and 80% don’t tell UCB. I’m guessing quite confidently that the actual number is much lower than 60%, since it seems to me that UCB is more likely to hear from the kids who got in someplace.

</p>

<p>

**norcalguy: **let’s examine the stats shall we? [Career</a> Center - Medical School Statistics](<a href=“http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm]Career”>http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/top20.stm)</p>

<p>Absolutely pathetic numbers. Duke might beat out Berkeley even on absolute numbers.</p>

<p>[Career</a> Center - Medical School Statistics](<a href=“http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/national.stm]Career”>http://career.berkeley.edu/MedStats/national.stm)
[The</a> page cannot be found](<a href=“http://career.ucla.edu/GraduateSchool&PreProfessionalServices/UCLAFourYrMedSchoolAdmissionsHistory.asp]The”>http://career.ucla.edu/GraduateSchool&PreProfessionalServices/UCLAFourYrMedSchoolAdmissionsHistory.asp)</p>

<p>49-62% compared with Duke’s 85%.

</p>

<p>

**bluedevilmike: **For top-ten admissions, we [Duke] not only beat them absolutely, we more than triple them absolutely (65 in 5 years vs. 44 in 2005, or 13:44). Remove state residency from the equation – i.e. remove UCSF – and Duke quintuples UCB per year (8:42).

Don’t forget that Berkeley is six times bigger, so a 5x number is really a 30x ratio. Duke is an excellent program, but it’s not particularly better than an awful lot of other places.</p>

<p>

**phillysaser06: **When nationally about half of all those are who apply to med school are rejected from all schools to which they apply, and given the overestimation of self-reporting by the uc schools, UCLA and UCB may actually be at or BELOW the national rate. How on earth can it be rationalized that these are good places to be premed when schools like Duke, Penn, Cornell, Columbia, etc. churn out rates well in excess of 80% or 90% in getting students of similar ability (in UCB’s case) into med school?

</p>

[confused13]

<p>How do they know that the Duke, Penn, Cornell, Columbia etc. admitted med students are of “similar ability” to the UC ones?
[UCLA</a> Career Center](<a href=“http://career.ucla.edu/Students/GradProfSchCounseling/MedicalSchoolStatisticsForUCLAGraduates.aspx]UCLA”>http://career.ucla.edu/Students/GradProfSchCounseling/MedicalSchoolStatisticsForUCLAGraduates.aspx)
This chart shows UCLA grads’ med school acceptances as based on GPA and MCAT scores. Do the other schools you mentioned have this data? That would be very useful to look at.</p>

<p>Oh yeah, and I would be happy attending Loma Linda for med school as long as I could get in and get a career with that. So what are my chances of getting in there after going to a UC (LA or I)?</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>NCG was probably using incoming SAT scores and GPA to assess that conclusion.</p>

<p>You can see that more than half – and probably a lot more than half – of UCB premeds who actually get to applying do not make it into any school, including Loma Linda. (Which, if you know it, has an extremely particular curriculum which does not fit everybody.) And this is after an extensive weed-out process between hypercompetitive classes, an unsupportive environment, and other negative attributes.</p>

<p>I don’t know of any charts that provide that information; Duke used to publish theirs but no longer does so.</p>

[confused13]

<p>hm, maybe it’s better for me to just go to La Sierra University because of its connection to Loma Linda. Even though it’s not as “prestigious” or highly-ranked as many others.</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>Aiming specifically for any one medical school is a recipe for failure. When admissions rates are as low as they are, there’s too much randomness in the system for this to be a reasonable strategy.</p>

<p>And besides all that, seriously, are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Loma Linda’s open to others, of course, but their curriculum is relatively particular to this worldview.</p>

[norcalguy]

<p>It’s rather alarming to see schools like Berkeley, Emory, and UCLA with acceptance rates near the national average despite having very above average freshman. I don’t think it’s the students’ ability that’s in question here but some other factor.</p>

<p>From my own experiences and from seeing Berkeley’s acceptance data to top med schools (MIT and Princeton also released similar data and their applicants did a lot better), I just don’t think Northeast med schools really give UC’s their due. Despite the fact UCLA and Berkeley are among the top 3 or 4 colleges in the country in producing med school applicants, I saw virtually no Berkeley or UCLA interviewees on my interviews. I went on a lot of interviews and they were just filled with Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, JHU, and WashU applicants but outside of my Michigan interview, I saw maybe 3-4 interviewees from UCLA and Berkeley combined. You can forget about any other UC’s. I think the UC’s do fine with UC Med schools. I just don’t think an out of state med school really knows the difference between UC Davis vs. UC Irvine vs. UC Riverside. I don’t even think Harvard Med or any other top Northeast med school gives a crap about Berkeley or UCLA.</p>

<p>I do think the school name can make a difference, when it’s Harvard vs. Berkeley. I just don’t think most med schools know that much about the UC’s. UC Berkeley and UCLA’s acceptance rates that are near the national average is a testament to that. So, in response to this post specifically, I would encourage the person to choose the school that’s best for him. If the decision were Berkeley vs. Duke, I’d encourage him to go to Duke, all things being equal.</p>

[Listenkid]

<p>Now that we got such a good discussion going on. Can I throw in USC, NYU, and UCD. Everyone wanna give me their speel on those.</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>I don’t like the UC’s and don’t know anything about USC or NYU.</p>

[somemom]

<p>One comment on earlier ratings of UCs; I think they are seen like this:</p>

<p>UCB/UCLA- these are well known across the US & world</p>

<p>UCSD- this and below are well known in CA, not so much in the US</p>

<p>UCI/UCD/UCSB- these are really similarly ranked now & historically</p>

<p>UCSC- these three are less respected in CA, but still better than most CSUs
UCR</p>

<p>UCM</p>

<p>I think BDM is not liking the UCs for med school admissions, not for life, so since ya’ll are posting on this site take it that way. And he is right, you only get a cookie cutter advising, here is a piece of paper- take the courses on this list!!</p>

[somemom]

<p>USC & NYU from what I have seen are very similar. If you plan to stay in SoCal, USC is the way to go for future contacts!</p>

[bluedevilmike]

<p>

I think BDM is not liking the UCs for med school admissions, not for life

Somemom is, of course, correct – although I also happen to find the city of Berkeley and the greater Los Angeles area absolutely intolerable as well.</p>

<p>There are many things the UC’s do very well. Obviously for careers in engineering or computer science, they’re relatively strong schools. In particular, if you are considering a PhD in the hard sciences, Berkeley might be an excellent place to go for undergrad. In other words, the UC’s lend themselves well to any of several careers…</p>

<p>…but medicine is not one of them.</p>

[shades_children]

<p>I think NYU does fine, med-school-wise. I mean, I turned out okay. I will say I missed the boat in terms of the best timing for applying for medical school, and I’m not sure if that’s my fault for not knowing or NYU advising’s fault for not telling me. They got my transcripts and committee letters out on time, though.</p>