@firmament2x I don’t agree with you on a couple of points: 1) Marshall and other USC students do go on to graduate schools. Marshall is a top 10 to 15 undergraduate business school in the country. Many students from top undergraduate business schools do go on to graduate school (whether it is MBA or law school); and 2) Accounting major is not a default major for the mediocre or the middle of the road students in a business school or bus. econ. In fact, you have to be at least in the upper half if you aspire to be a CPA. Especially if a student wants to work for the prestigious Big 4 accounting firm or even the next tier, the student’s GPA should be in the upper tier and at least around 3.5+.
Many business or bus. econ. students work a few years in a Big 4 firm to get the experience and a CPA license. Then they might go on to finance or they might apply to a M7 MBA or a MBA from a top 15 school to get into investment banking or high level finance. Many from Big 4 firms also might go on to law school.
Another perspective: many students who are admitted both to UCB and UCLA and who want to major in business choose UCLA bus. econ. over UCB (Haas does not accept freshman and UCB students have to apply to Haas as a junior). They choose UCLA because Haas undergraduate school is difficult to get into (about 3.7 UCB GPA to get in). A friend’s S, who recently graduated from UCLA bus. econ., said that accounting is up there around the top of the “food chain” for UCLA bus. econ. majors. This person is now working as a consultant at a Big 4 firm and doing very well. He had A’s in most UCLA courses but a C+ in the intermediate accounting changed his goal to become a CPA.
@nadocrasin you are very fortunate to be accepted to 2 great schools, including a top 10 undergraduate business school in USC. Good luck in your decision.
Re, 1, undoubtedly. But the ones whom I know and know of, most of them would step into Marshall for an MBA if they went to grad at all. This, of course, would be an anecdotal reference on my part also, I realize, but there is undoubtedly some general truth to it. It may be only a certain percentage of the experiences of those who attend Marshall for a BS, but it does trend (if not necessarily extremely highly) with them.
Re, 2, thanks for the clarification as to more of a UCLA Business Economics aspirant’s goals. The only thing I disagree with would be whether there there would be a threshold gpa that someone in the pre-major for UCLA would have to meet. I believe you’re intimating that someone can enter UCLA as a (Pre) Bus (Biz) Econ major directly from high school, or their scholarship wouldn’t need to be as high.
The xfers from community college to UCLA’s Pre-Business Economics and Cal’s Haase for 2018-19 had the following data:
Those who enrolled at both (essentially stepping into the major) would reflect at least a very high threshold of entry in completed prerequisites if not through the acceptance process as Haas seems to be doubly harder to gain entry.
This wouldn’t seem to be consistent for those who enter as freshmen at both universities with respect to grades: acceptance into the pre-major at UCLA and minimum scholarship at the university; and acceptance at Cal as undeclared or the pre-major, and maximum scholarship – 3.7 minimum gpa – to be accepted into the major.
The language for Pre-Business Economics states ≥ 3.0 for required coursework and 3.5 for specific ones. I don’t know if there is a subset that can enter into UCLA essentially into the major if this is what you were intimating, which would make those who have acceptances to both choose UCLA.
@firmament2x Re: #1, I know of some Marshall undergrads who after getting a few years of work experience go on to MBA schools at UCLA, UCB, Stanford or Ivies, i.e., Penn. Maybe in numbers, more go to Marshall and if so, many part-time.
Re #2, There is a minimum GPA requirement stated in the school’s sites, but actual GPA for admitted students as a junior is higher than the stated GPA. A couple of years ago, it was around a 3.3. in the pre-econ. bus. courses for the UCLA students who got in. For cc transfers, it is around 3.7+. This GPA for UCLA is still much lower than getting into Haas (about 3.7 for UCB students and almost 3.9 for cc transfers (per Haas website, 3.87 GPA for Fall 2018 cc transfers, not 3.84 which you stated above for cc transfers)).
Lastly, it appears you deleted your previous comment that accounting major is a default major for the mediocre or the middle of the road students. As I am going to reiterate, many of the top undergraduate business school students (whether from Marshall or Haas) or bus. econ. student major, concentrate in accounting, and they go on to Big 4 firms (PWC, Deloitte, E&Y and KPMG) and get their CPA licenses. Big 4 firms recruit and hire the best (normally at least a 3.5+ GPA to get an interview) for their auditing, tax and consulting arms. Also, after getting some work experience, many Big 4 hires go on to top MBA Schools or law schools or eventually may be CFO’s of top companies or get into high finance fields. Both Marshall and Haas have top 10 undergraduate business schools and so you get the crème of the crème of the crop being admitted to those business schools.
As I mentioned, @nadocrasin is very fortunate to have that difficult decision that many would envy to have. You should always have backup plans.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying at all, I was just recounting from those whom I know or know of from Marshall, a fairly decent number. The idea of attending Marshall for many is to be finished with University after four years. UCLA, again, is more of a graduate-school preparatory, in general.
Point 2
I just copied the numbers from the UC Transfer Database for the year 2018. Undoubtedly Cal was doubly tougher to gain entry, 5% acceptance compared to UCLA’s 11%, but the stats were comparable for those admitted for that year. From 2017, Cal’s was 3.84/4.00 (25th and 75th percentiles); UCLA’s was 3.81/4.00; from 2016, 3.79/4.00 for both universities.
Re, your 2nd to last paragraph:
My points about the “middling” students in UCLA’s Business Economics (“BE”) department is in post #16 after I quoted Nivlac, who felt that Marshall students had a wider choice of business-sector jobs than those (edit: with) a BE degree from UCLA.
Here it is in its entirety:
I still hold to Econ and Engineering being better wrt options, and I’ll add Statistics and Applied Math, also.
Econ, because the students from that department are generally more inquisitive and intellectual. The ones I knew abhorred the Bus Econ major because they felt it drew those who were more conforming to taking classes that were formulaic and involved rote memorization. Econ on the other hand, as they would state, was highly theoretical, and it fed their intellectual curiosity much better. The ones I knew, wanted to go the PHD route instead of going for an MBA, though I’m sure the DBA curriculum would be much like a doctorate program in Econ, incredibly abstract and researchy. . .etc.
Take a look at Dr. Michael Burry’s keynote speech at UCLA Economics Graduation, 2012 on Youtube. It’s linked in my previous post somewhere; I don’t see it in #16; it must be earlier. Since you’re in some field which undoubtedly involves markets, I’m sure it’ll help you. One of his quotes, “I bet against America. . . and won,” as he felt very badly, because though he knew that there was a windfall of profits coming for his hedge fund, he stated, “I did not tap dance to work everyday.”
Engineering is better than econ, because the ones whom I knew were seeking consulting jobs, despite being mechanical, computer, or electrical concentrations, and these perusals gave them a foot in because of their ability to crunch data and analyze it at probably a more of an ascendant plane than a Bus Econ major. Though their majors were seemingly detached from, say, the overall financial markets, they could be potentially more expert in various industries like the tech and aeronautic industries within it.
I also referred to Bus Econ majors as “cookie-cutter conformists.” I still stick with this, but if it helps them land a job with Deloitte in consulting or accounting, more power to them. I’m not against the Bus Econ major; it serves its purpose as you can well cite as you have done, but I think Econ would be probably better, and I was undoubtedly projecting the OP’s aspirations, as being more wide open to his or her future.