Hello: My son was accepted to UCLA and the UCSB College of Creative Studies. He wants to focus on pure math, and to eventually earn a PhD in pure math. He has had the opportunity while in high school to take lots of advanced math classes, so the opportunity to take more advanced math classes (without first having to take pre-requisites) at the UCSB CCS is very appealing, as is the increased guidance from a CCS math advisor. But we’ve also heard that UCLA has an excellent math program. Any suggestions re: pros and cons of both?
Most math programs have placement testing to put students in the correct class. I don’t see math placement as a differentiator.
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UCLA does tend to be recognized for its mathematics program: For Students Seeking a College Strong in Mathematics.
He may want to take a look at faculty rosters and course offerings at each school’s math department to see if any particular subareas of math of his interest are well represented in each math department.
If he has been taking lots of advanced math classes while in high school, he is likely to take graduate level math courses and do graduate level research as an undergraduate.
UCLA hands down.
Among other things, peer quality should also be an important consideration.
You don’t think students accepted to CCS are comparable in “quality” to the general population at UCLA? (Even UCSB generally is quite selective - it seems rather harsh to dismiss the entire university as full of “inferior quality” peers.) In schools of 20K+ (UCSB) or 30K+ (UCLA) undergraduates, there will be more than enough “high quality” peers at either school.
It sounds as if this student will be able to place out of many of the larger, lower-division math classes at UCLA, so the difference in experience may not be as stark as for a student who isn’t coming in with as much advanced math. But the CCS experience is still different - stepping directly into a “grad school for undergrads” environment, with the attendant mentoring and a curated peer group that’s seeking that same experience, could be a terrific fit for this student.
Neither school will hold him back one iota in terms of placement in grad programs, nor in terms of forging ahead into grad-level coursework as an undergrad. He should consider which program, and which campus, appeals to him more and offers what he considers important to his quality of life.
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Thank you for this thoughtful advice!
It is my opinion that the peer quality at the UCLA math department will be higher than the peer quality at the UCSB math department. It is not 20k or 30k that is relevant. There are, seemingly, about 70 students in Math that is not applied in some way at UCLA and about 150 at UCSB.
It is not harsh to say that the average peer quality at a better ranked math department will likely be higher. Those departments are far apart. UCLA has some 115 math faculty. UCSB has about 35.
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On the page Faculty | UCLA Department of Mathematics it lists 60 faculty members that are not retired (eg. emeritus) The page at People | Department of Mathematics - UC Santa Barbara lists 35 ladder faculty.
Thank you for your helpful reply, neela1: Did you mean to say that there are about 70 students studying pure math at UCSB and 150 at ULCA? And how do you find the numbers of students studying pure math at a school?
Yoy can start with IPEDS:
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=UCLA&s=all&id=110662#programs
https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=UCSB&s=all&id=110705#programs
See the Mathematics, General in the above list.
Likewise here: University of California-Santa Barbara - Tuition, Fees, Aid and Costs - ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
ipeds from above is also good – maybe the same source of data.
Thank you so much, Merc 81 and Neela1. This is very helpful information, which we will definitely consider. For those interested in this general topic, I also found this source helpful: Top Feeders to Ph.D. Programs (■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■)
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