<p>I got accepted into both UCSB and Berkeley. Where is the major discrepancy in educational experience (besides UCSB being more of a party school) for these two schools. I don't understand what exactly they are computing when they give rankings for undergraduate schools.
Is it the quality of professors? I don't see why Berkeley would have better professors. I can understand more prestigious professors, but does the professors prestige have to do with their ability to teach a class? I have sat in on many classes in both schools and both seem to be remarkably similar. The professor goes over the subject matter in the book that is required for the course and the students take notes. Especially at the undergraduate level, I would think that the classes themselves are essentially of the same caliber. Is this a false impression?
I have heard that professors in Berkeley are perhaps better resources than those in other school, and cannot understand why this would be the case. In fact it seems to me that professors at a school like UCSB may be better resources for several reasons. UCSB is has a much larger proportion of undergraduates. At a large graduate school like berkeley, I would think that the professors would be much more apt to help graduate students (give them research oppertunities, talk with them, ect.). Wouldn't a school like UCSB have less competition for research oppertunities/time to talk to professors?
One reason that I can think of for a difference between the two schools is the prestige of the school. When you are applying for a job/grad school, a degree from Berkeley may be more impressive, but especially for applying for graduate school, is it only the name that matters? At UCSB, you may have more opportunities to get to know professors and do research with them, as well as becoming involved in other interesting and impressive extra-curricular activities. You may also be able to graduate with a higher GPA. So what is more important for applying for graduate school, the name of your undergraduate college or what you did there?
Another reason I could see for the discrepancy in the two schools is the student body surrounding you. At UCSB, people may be less academically focused and therefore you will inherently be inclined to become less academic yourself. Is this the reason for someone to choose Berkeley over UCSB? The student body?
Often when I hear people comparing schools, they mention the graduate schools students got into or the average starting salary of a graduate from that school, and so forth. Taking these statistics to generally dictate the success of a graduate in their professional and/or academic careers, my question is this: Students that have been accepted into high ranking schools are smart to begin with. Doesn't this upset these statistics to some degree, as smart students will become successful in life anyways, regardless of their university education?
Please note that I seek only to understand, and would love to hear from anyone who has insight on the topic.</p>
<p>I think your instincts are right. Though others may disagree, a large part of prestige is name recognition and the much older college naturally has more of a name plus a larger population of graduates who can donate more, etc. UC Berkeley also has a number of Nobel prize winners, etc. But no matter how great the professors are, if the undergrads are actually being taught by grad students (who may be foreign with foreign accents) on behalf of the professors who are busy researching or writing books... then how great is your education really? Will you really get your money's worth? Personally, between these I'd go to UCSB. But then I would have applied to other UCs like UCSD instead anyway.</p>
<p>Throughout the thread, you make it seem like you're looking for reasons to pick UCSB over Berkeley. This is either a strange thread, or a flame thread.</p>
<p>I don't know where people get the notion that graduate students teach classes...professors teach every class at Cal, and most are supplemented with discussion sections taught by a graduate student.</p>
<p>Anyway, there's no guarantee that graduating from Cal will land you a better job/position in life than graduating from UCSB. College is what you make of it. That being said, recruiters look very highly upon Cal students and graduates, so you may have the upper hand when it comes to landing that first job.</p>
<p>Go where you WANT to go: there is a big difference in the setting of UCSB and Cal, and not everyone would be happy at either school. UCSB may not have the renown of Berkeley, but then it's a much newer school. On the other hand the school is quickly growing in international reputation (a couple of Nobels in the past few years doesn't hurt either) and some of its departments -- physics comes to mind -- are world class, and recruited are very well aware of that fact. </p>
<p>Again, go where your gut tells you. And have fun.</p>
<p>I'll admit, for the first paragraph I wondered if you were naif/ve or just ignorant. The more I read, the more I resonated with your thoughts. I attended Stanford and UCLA. In graduate school (MBA) I met kids from Berkeley and UCSB, so those are my biases.</p>
<p>In the great world of business, <em>nobody</em> cares whether you graduated from UCSB or UCB. You might learn more at one or the other depending on your learning style. If you enjoy outward, overt competition, you will be challenged more at UCB because, on average, the kids there have scored significantly higher on their SATs and in their GPAs than the kids at UCSB -- again, on average. If you dislike outward competition (especially for grades), then you will likely do better at UCSB than UCB.</p>
<p>As for graduate school, see paragraph above. If your social and learning style is better suited to one, you will perform better there, and look better to adcoms as a result.</p>
<p>^^concur with k-mom. Go for fit.</p>
<p>Both schools are large, research Unis. Both have a gazillion TA's. Both have profs more interested in research than in teaching, so no UCSB profs won't necessarily provide you with better opportunities for research (it will really depend on your department). Both schools have huge bureacracies, (as do most publics). Of course, if you are a transfer, you will have much smaller classes, and fewer TAs since the upper division classes are more intimate. Areas nearby can be kinda sketchy at both schools. </p>
<p>Yes, a Cal degree might have a small plus factor for that first job; it will also have a much bigger plus factor internationally should you ever go that route. Cal also has a lot of D1 sports, particularly big time football and b'ball, if that is a consideration.</p>
<p>If you have time, make an appt with the Chair of your Dept and go visit each. Good luck.</p>
<p>Hey, I'm really glad you made this thread, and I'll share with you a couple of my thoughts. Having just finished the whole college process and settled my mind upon a school, I have come to realize that the name of someone's undergraduate school really bears little meaning on how much I like or can connect to him/her, and I have met people from Cal Poly Pomona who seem far more intelligent than others from Northwestern. I'm sure that you'll find people at UCSB with 2200+ SAT scores who simply chose the school due to its location and social scene, thinking that they can get a good education while maintaining a really high GPA and having a great time, so don't get the idea you'll be the only "berkeley acceptee" at UCSB if you choose to go. College selection really comes down to where you want to be for the next four years. Do you want to be pulling all nighters weekly to keep up with highly competitive Ivy League or Berkeley students, or would you rather just take it easy every now and then and appreciate other aspects of life while still doing well in your classes? Personally, if I had to choose among the UC's, I think that UCLA is the best one because of its combination of the social scene/awesome location that UCSB offers with the stellar academic reputation that UCB offers. But between UCSB and UCB, it really comes down to where you want to be for the next four years; do you want to be one of the top students at a beach resort, partying and going out and being surrounded by beautiful girls, or do you want to work hard to maximize your intellectual potential and be in the top 25%/50% at a more academically prestigious institution?</p>
<p>Also, the College of Creative Studies at UCSB seems really awesome in that it seems to treat its undergraduates very well. Granted, I know little about it, but this was one cool aspect of UCSB that I noticed when I was applying.</p>
<p>Also, don't listen to people on here tell you that one is clearly a better choice than the other. Notice that I did not make a recommendation for you but rather provided you the appropriate questions and tools for determining which school is better for you personally. Be very wary of people who advise you to attend one school or the other, since they do not even know you personally and are simply spewing biased, unhelpful information. So far, most of the posts seem to have been very helpful (especially the one by bluebayou). </p>
<p>Good luck, broski.</p>