<p>My son has strong passion in physics. He got some prizes in national contests. His SAT1 scores are not high enough (CR 600, Wr 640, Math 800), but does not want to spend more time on it. He wants to do more in physics by self-study. His SAT2 is 800 for math,physics and chem., has attended AP Calculus BC and Physics C, hopefully he can get 5 all.</p>
<p>The high school does not has the GPA and ranking report, but it is the best one in the city and he is in the science honor class (5% of the students are qualified to this).</p>
<p>My son is in Cornell Summer School now, attending Physics and Math precollege courses. He found them easy to handle, but I worry that his scores make him difficult to enter Cornell. Do you think the above colleges are the match for him? and which one is a better choice consider the aim to graduate school and Ph D of physics?</p>
<p>I think all three have good grad schools in physics, but I have a feeling that the rigor of classwork would be highest at UIUC and/or UMich. (Just a hunch, but UMich might be the best in terms of classes even though UIUC is slightly better in terms of physics grad school.) You should include a few reaches. MIT sometimes looks past SAT scores–especially verbal ones. I would also include Cornell. They might go for someone very lopsided. They have an excellent physics program (#8 I believe).</p>
<p>Your son’s perfect scores on the math/science SATI/SATII’s and especially national awards will mean that top schools will take a long look at home. Like you said, it would be better if he could raise that verbal score to 700 or so.</p>
<p>All three of these are state universities so you might want to consider cost if you’re in-state for any of them - i.e. the out-of-state costs can be high and might help make the decision.</p>
<p>We are from China and the cost difference is not too big. I suggest him to ttry ACT and see if it is easier for him. He hates tests and won’t spend time on them again.
I visited UCSD and Harvey Mudd, after my report, he likes big universities, which might give him more research opportunities and space.
Thanks.</p>
<p>I think UCSB’s CCS program would be a great fit for your son. The CCS program has an outstanding physics program and it’s very renown despite being on the campus of a “party” school. I would encourage you or your son to contact the physics chair of the CCS program. They were very responsive when I contacted them a few years ago.</p>
<p>Talk to your son after he finishes the program at Cornell. You will find that he has changed a lot in just a few weeks. He may be so impressed by Cornell that he finally listens to other people who are knowledgeable about colleges. When he hears that he needs better SATs to have a strong chance at Cornell, he may finally accept the challenge of studying and retesting. He has time to take both the SAT and ACT again before Early Decision deadlines. If he does want to apply to Cornell, and you are comfortable with the financial situation, ED is his best bet for acceptance. </p>
<p>However, don’t get stuck on one school or program. All of the schools you’ve mentioned will give him a good education in undergrad physics. For UM and UIUC, and most state schools, the earlier he gets his application in, the better.</p>
<p>Hi midwesterner,
you are right there, I contact him once a week (it has been two weeks) and changes are happening. I also pass this thread to him.
His class is the most challenge one in the city, and he is going to take the national physics contest in October, these make him impossible to prepare for another SAT or ACT test. We all agree with you that all the schools are good enough,so he just wants to apply with these scores.
Could you please suggest some safety schools to us?
Thanks</p>
<p>Explore what TYPE of schools your son prefers: Urban, rural, small, medium, or large. UCSB is a very socially active (translation- “party hearty”) school. Most kids move just off campus to Isla Vista after Freshman year. Very densely populated with lots of music and partying. I’m not knocking this, just know what to expect at UCSB. I would also look at other UC’s such as UC Irvine and UC Davis. Michigan will be somewhat of a reach for him with his current overall SAT score. Might want to also consider UWisconsin Madison and UTexas Austin, both in great college towns, if he likes a big campus feel. Best of luck!</p>
<p>He prefers large schools and doesn’t care the location. Academy is the key for him. We did not consider UCSB before, but do UIUC, which is also a party school. We visit a friend’s son, freshman of UIUC engineer, who choose not to participate the parties. I think my son is that kind of kids. If he can enter the CCS in UCSB, as ‘sbjdorlo’ suggested, he won’t have time for parties. We will follow your instruction and consider more state schools, like UT Austin, UWS, OSU. Thank you all.</p>
<p>^Purdue and GT are great suggestions. May also want to consider Virginia Tech, Penn State, Ohio State (which is probably your “OSU” but could also be for Oregon State, which also has a good program as well), Arizona State, and UWashington.</p>
<p>He has considered UWashington and Ohio State University, and UT Austin. As to GT and VT, maybe too engineer side, he is trying more diversity universities. Purdue is good, but too popular in China and a lot of CHinese students there. We are thinking of a more american style campus. Any idea about U Rochester? Thanks.</p>
<p>If your son is an international applicant and his native language is Chinese, not English, his SAT CR score will not be held against him. In fact, 600 in CR and 640 in WR is very impressive if he is not a native English speaker. Furthermore, unlike Math, there is really no effective way to study for the CR portion of the SAT and trying to significantly increase your CR score through retesting is basically a waste of time and money. If he is a native Chinese speaker he should take the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL), for which he will need little or no additional preparation, and have his scores sent to colleges and universities in the U.S. he is thinking of applying to.</p>
<p>American colleges and universities put much more emphasis on TOEFL scores that SAT CR scores when evaluating international applicants who are not native English speakers. </p>
<p>It sounds like your son is really too talented and motivated in Physics for schools like UCSB and probably even UMich and UIUC to be places where he can reach his full potential. While they could be safety schools he should really be applying to MIT and Caltech as well.</p>
<p>I agree with Lemaitre1 both regarding the SAT scores and the list of potential universities with strong physics programs. While many of the universities listed by the OP and others have strong engineering programs, they do not have exceptional undergraduate physics programs. </p>
<p>From your post it seems that your son is potentially a very strong physics/math student, and that he is very likely to continue his physics study through the PhD level. To succeed as a physicist it is essential to be challenged at the deepest level from the earliest stage. Certainly the course offering matter, but as important are undergraduate peers, and the opportunity to do research as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>I encourage you to consider the strongest schools for physics and math. They include Caltech, MIT, University of Chicago, Princeton and Harvard. Two LACs are also very strong – i.e. Williams and Amherst.</p>
<p>Your son may find it easier to get into the very top schools than into those one level below. The very top schools are most likely to recognize a gifted future scientist and are least likely to apply a formula regarding standard test scores for the right person.</p>
<p>I also encourage you and your son to establish a relationship with a practicing research physicist – someone who’s successful in the field. Have that person council your son and guide him through the college application process.</p>
<p>My son has taken the TOEFL test and got 104, which is just a pass of top schools minimum requirement of 100. I know U Chicago has a strong requirement of TOEFL scores, so he won’t consider it. I think CALTECH and MIT are too far for him to reach. If he can do well in undergraduate, then he can try these two in graduate application. You are right, he will surely continue his physics study through the PhD level. </p>
<p>Princeton has sent invitation to him for application, though we have not sent any scores to Princeton. I think it is just an automatic invitation to everyone, am I right?</p>
<p>Following your encourage, we may consider Cornell and UC Berkeley. </p>
<p>UCB is very famous in China, same level as Harvard and MIT in their mind. It is worthy to have a try.</p>
<p>He loves Cornell very much, so I sent him to the Summer School in Cornell to have the experience. Two weeks past, he loves it more. He selected physics (mechanics) and Calculus for Engineer for credit, he also take the Linear Algebra for not credit class. He can handle them without any problem. In the first Calculus test, he got No. 3 in the class of about 32 students. As to Physics, he built a good relationship with the Professor. They discussed deeper level questions, and the Professor took him to a retired professor’s office to take any books left. He is absorbing knowledge thirstily.</p>
<p>Do you think to apply Cornell ED is a good way? Can he apply UMich and UIUC EA at the same time?</p>
<p>I still think MIT and Caltech would be better schools for your son in the long run and I do not think that they are that much of a reach. Caltech in particular looks favorably on applicants that won prizes in high level Math and Physics competitions.</p>
<p>The SAT scores in CR and WR indicate that he is very competent in written English but his TEOFL score shows that he really needs to work hard on his spoken English skills if he is to fully benefit from studying at a top U.S. university. Ideally, he should have English conversation lessons from a qualified native English speaker who can help him really strengthen his ability to speak and understand spoken English. I realize this may be difficult to accomplish in China but it will him participate in his classes which is important in the U.S., make living in America easier and more enjoyable and will make him more attractive to graduate schools who want students with English language skills that will make them more effective Teaching Assistants (TAs) for undergraduate Physics classes.</p>