@xxyyzzOO
After your ride through undergrad, you have to pay out of state tuition for medical school, would you be better serve going back to NY for medical school then?
A few observations:
- I don't think @SteyrFWB is insulting NMSs. I think this would be a gross misreading of his/her intentions. He/she claims that being an NMS is not highly correlated with medical school acceptance rates. I would agree with him/her. NMS correlates mostly with IQ, but medical school acceptance is a function of many different qualities. IQ is just one dimension. I am highly doubtful that being an NMS correlate highly with high GPA and/or determination and/or high-quality/conviction ECs etc.
- I saw somewhere that there is a correlation between SAT/ACT and MCAT scores, at least old MCAT scores. But again, this is important but only one variable in the medical school admission equation.
- There is a reasonable chance that my family will be Florida resident by the time I graduate.
- Yes. I did visit both schools. No preference one over the other based on the visits. I can see myself fitting in both places.
I am getting close to making my decision. When I make it, I will post it and why I chose for the future NMSs.
I think this has been a fantastic discussion and will be very helpful for the future NMSs who would inescapably be facing exactly the same dilemma. Thanks for everybody who has offered their viewpoints.
@xxyyzz00
Thanks for getting an interesting discussion going here and bringing SteyrFWB over to his alma mater’s site from the UCF site. I see from your post on the UCF site that you are probably headed to UCF, and I’m sure you will do well.
UF is making changes to its honors program. This year it direct-admitted about 300 students to the program, and the provost said that the plan next year is for the school to select all the members. He specifixally said that it needed to be made more competitive with UVA’s honors program. Perhaps next year’s students will find the program more attractive.
I am a high school senior who attends a very large public high school with lots of high achievers (like you). Some high achievers have a fear of failure and/or tend to be perfectionists. While this leads to high achievement, it also tends to make some students play it safe and select the path they are sure they can succeed at instead of taking any risk. My suggestion would be to take the risk at UF if you think UF would have a greater reward. Do not limit yourself by playing it safe. I read a study once that said those who take a little risk in life are happier and more successful in the long run. Good luck.
Unrelated to the honors colleges, I would argue that NMS is highly correlated with GPA. Yes, @SteyrFWB has argued above that there are studies that show NMS at UF do no better than the top third of the class. Well, the top third of the class at UF will fall into the top few % of those that took the SAT based on the school’s 25% percentile score, and it wouldn’t surprise me that the students who score within the top few percent on the SAT will have high GPAs. Accordingly, it wouldn’t surprise me that NMS have similar GPAs to the other top students.
Instead of misreading his comments to mean that NMS isn’t correlated to GPA, I believe @SteyrFWB was making the point that giving a free ride to NMS through the Benacquisto Scholarship may be an unnecessary or unwise choice by the state of Florida since NMS don’t outscore other top students. (The scholarship money doesn’t come from the various universities; the state pays it to the universities as a supplement.) However, the legislature has a goal of attracting academic talent to Florida to help grow our economy, and NMF is one of the few public lists of high performers. The state doesn’t have access to the students’ full background, nor does it have the ability to make subjective decisions about students’ qualifications. Using the list of NMF is both simple and objective from the state’s perspective. If the state gave the scholarship money to the universities as a block grant for them to disperse as they saw fit, the universities may allocate it differently. Obviously, I think that the legislature’s decision is a very wise one, especially since my family, like many of the rest of the people on this site, benefits from it.
And finally, going back to my point that acceptances to colleges is somewhat like a stamp of approval, I suspect that a student who goes to UCF but who was also accepted to UF will find themselves not infrequently telling classmates or friends that they were also accepted to UF. They would do this as both a point of pride and also as an effort to elevate themselves above the majority of UCF students who wouldn’t have been accepted to UF. I doubt you will find UF students doing the reverse, since the UF acceptance is more highly rated than a UCF acceptance. While it is certainly not unusual for a UCF student to have also been accepted to UF, you can be sure that the initial assumption that many of us have when someone says that they attend a public college in Florida other than UF is that they didn’t get accepted to UF. Of course, an acceptance to UCF Honors would be an equivalent stamp of approval to a UF acceptance, but it isn’t immediately obvious and would need to be explained.
UF wants to compete with UNC-CH and UVA and it’s getting there, quickly in fact. Opening Benacquisto to Oos students and investing heavily into it will speed things along. At the same time, UF is not anywhere near UVA. Floridians are surprised when people in the East or Midwest or West confuse UF and FSU. Its reputation is aspirationally national but isn’t there yet.
So, there’s significant difference between UF and UCF, especially in terms of general peers, state investment, and level of research, but UCF Honors offers an excellent learning environment, opportunities for research involvement, and top-notch peers. Both choices have drawbacks. Making this type of decisions -weighting pros and cons, understanding there’s no ‘dream’ school, is the first adult decision you’ll make.
However it’s really an embarrassment of riches as both choices will offer you the opportunity for a truly excellent education.
BMS is hard to achieve.
Go Knights!
I am reposting a discussion blog on this year’s Florida medical school matching results=
Hello everyone! I’m an accepted student for the UCF COM Class of 2022 and I’m writing to share some comparative data from the 2018 match lists for medical schools in the state of Florida (I had the day off from work and stumbled onto this project lol). Some quick background info; I have some significant experiences in a certain “competitive” surgical subspecialty field and I’m convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that I will be pursuing this field. My question was quite simple: which Florida medical school most successfully matched students into “competitive” specialties in 2018. I defined a competitive specialty as one that had an average Step 1 score of over 240. This left me with Derm, Plastics, Rads, Ophtho, Ortho, ENT, Uro, and Neuro Sx. The methods and data should be self-explanatory. Without further adieu:
2018
UCF: 32/114 = 28%
UM: 43/190 = 23%
UF: 27/130 = 21%
USF: 26/158 = 16%
FSU: 11/108 = 10%
FAU: NO DATA
FIU: NO DATA
2017
UCF: 32/114 = 28%
I hope that this info will be useful to those who hold multiple acceptances to Florida medical schools and are interested in a “competitive” specialty. I hope that you all will choose UCF and join me in leading this program to continued preeminence in medical education and match.
- Future Knight
This last post is an interesting post, but not all residency programs are equal for these “competitive” sub-specialties that you listed so it would nice to see these programs further stratified to take this into account for the different programs that you are considering. In any case I am a product of UF honors program back in the 80’s and was accepted into all the medical schools in Florida at the time including an MD/PhD program (with a stipend) at UF. The research opportunities were good at UF for me at the time and even had the opportunity to study at Oxford while in school. In the end I attended Case Western Med school and then went on to an Ophthalmology residency at Case followed by a fellowship at the University of Melbourne in Australia. I know that many things have changed over the years, but I know many other fellow Gators who have all done well in Medicine after attending UF Honors as an undergrad. I am hoping that my son seriously considers being a Gator as well as he too is in the UF Honors Program with full Bright Futures, but is considering other schools out of state at a much higher cost. Good luck, I believe that either program will be fine…it really will be more of what you make of your time while at either school.
Those data is indeed interesting. LOL the student had nothing better to do that day !
It is solidly objective; of course, the interpretation of it would be very subjective depends on viewer’s discretion.
It in no way indicates which school is better. It simply proffer the notion that UCF medical graduates can compete more than mightily well with other big boys.
@borisdarice, you son taking Michigan over UF?
My son has not made a final decision and is considering Michigan as well as a few other schools with strong engineering programs, but the honors program and the possibility of the enrolling in StepUp engineering program for Summer B has him considering UF more seriously. Of course the cost of these other schools needs to be considered for their true ROI. IMHO UF wins because of these added perks and of course my bias as a Gator 
In the end, we would like this to be his decision.
My recommendation: Go to UF Honors for Premed and kick ass. Do really well and apply all over for med school. Don’t limit yourself.
I went to UF, did well, applied to med school and was accepted to multiple top 10 schools and am now graduating from one of the top names in MD schools w/ a full ride scholarship and going to a good residency. I had multiple friends who accomplished the same thing.
Im biased but I think UF is the best school in Florida for preprofessional health studies and has incredible research and opportunities. It does premed very well and equips you with everything you need. More importantly, its also a very storied undergrad with big sports and traditions, an amazing college town experience, a devoted alumni base, an international brand, and strong programs in other fields should you wish to switch your major.
UCF Medical school has done remarkably well so far in terms of its match placements and board score averages. At the end of the day, however, a school like UF med is the more established program and more competitive to get into. It has a national brand and a more ‘known’ product because its been around longer and placed more students in residencies around the country than UCF has. It doesn’t mean that UCF can’t get you places because they have matched some very competitive spots in the past. But, all else being equal, the name/legacy/brand can only help you. The same can be said for a number of top 20-50 NIH funded medical institutions in the country when compared to UCF med.
But I don’t think this is about UF med school, or really any med school in particular vs UCF med.
I think what is important to highlight here is you are 17/18 years old and are already thinking of limiting yourself to one road - the UCF combined BS/MD program.
You have no idea if you want to take time off before med school to work, do a fellowship or program like peace corps or teach for america, international travel, etc. You have no idea what potential options you could have at other med schools w/ financial aid $$ if you applied the traditional way and competed for spots and scholarships at the top med schools after doing well at UF undergrad. You have no idea if you want to leave FL after college and try to continue your education OOS. You also have no idea what other opportunities may arise in undergrad and pique your interests. For instance, I had a friend who was premed his first year who realized he really didn’t want to go into medicine and his true passions were in ROTC and he switched his major to history and spanish. He would go on to teach abroad in spain and is now a pilot in the air force. He switched out of premed and is now pursuing his dream thanks in part to UF. And this is OK, a lot of people switch, even some of the most science-inclined people realize medicine is not for them. And its OK. UF has a lot of other great options.
But assuming you will in fact go to medical school, you are potentially turning down an amazing flagship florida undergrad experience to secure a spot in an MD program when you may end up being more than qualified to get into MD school on your own in the traditional way, at your own pace, when you are ready.
Yes, the upside of the UCF program is that you have secured a spot and potentially save a year or so of your education. But remember that these are also years of your youth and your life experience goes beyond getting into medical school. Im giving you this advice as someone who wishes they had taken off even more time after undergrad and done the peace corps or lived abroad and travelled before med school. Med school will always be there and its a huge commitment and once you start medical school - its like boarding a moving train that doesn’t stop until you are down with residency/fellowship . But it’s not a race to get to there. Do it when you are ready and do it without limits.
It certainly is very nice for those of us who did really well, the world is our oyster at UF and out of UF.
But what happened to the guy sitting on your right, and the guy sitting on your left in your freshman chemistry class? They sure have as much sanguine outlook as you had, perhaps more. No?
I can only imagine they demurely reminding you,
it was “their ass” you were gleefully kicking.
Talked to a hospital student volunteer, from the lowly FIU, just thirsty minutes ago. Chatted about college, aspiration, where from, gone through, where going to, etc.
A Cuban kid, but has blonde hair/ blue eyes, perfect GPA, MCAT 524, done summer research via Howard Hughes. Asked where he wants to go.
It is HMS.
I have no doubt about him going to HMS. HMS will pick him over pretty much anyone from highly UF or any school, for that matter.
Asked him why not “high power” UF for undergrad, he looked at me as if answering "How quaint ".
Just met another two students from Caribbean medical schools, a few hours earlier. As usual, I chatted about their experience here, where from, where going, etc. Both of them are from UF undergrad. Asked them how many of their classmates are from UF. They said they graduates 600 a year, about 200 are from UF.
At your first two years at UF, though not quite a zero sum game, you are certainly not playing a cooperation game. Many, many ideals were thwarted in those formative years.
It is not until third year and later, that your game become laissez-faire. Though you might have come out ahead, but in that micro UF Nash equilibrium, your “ahead” influence many others UF fellows’ desirable outcome.
Any problem of going to FIU or UCF BMS, and “kick ass” down the road?
There are at least two different approaches that colleges take with their honors programs. At the very top public colleges such as Berkeley and UVA, the honors program is intended as an educational supplement for the highly motivated students. Members of the honors program can be given freedom to help design their curriculum or take courses that may typically limited to graduate students. They are encouraged to participate in research projects and are given more access to the top professors.
Another approach with an honors program is to develop a “college within a college”. This approach offers a separate and superior education from the program offered to non-members. This approach is common in large, public schools that are more average in the rankings to entice the state’s academically gifted students. The promise of an elite but affordable education is attractive to many students.
Florida’s approach to its honor program is more like the first one described above, and UCF is more like the later.
Hmmmmmm…
" At the very top public colleges such as Berkeley, the honors program is intended as an educational supplement for the highly motivated students. Members of the honors program can be given freedom to help design their curriculum or take courses that may typically limited to graduate students."
I really have to laugh out loud on this one.
My all time favorite professor is Dr. P.G. @ UF
Over the years, whenever I drove by G’ville, I would make a habit of going to his office and talk with him. We would talk about all things, or just talk about nothing.
About ten years ago, on my last visit to his office, he was no longer there. Staff told me he retired, and they have no tracing of him.
Life goes on, but I really want to sit down and shoot the breeze with him.
Last month a beautiful lady rep. from UF Medical Alumni Association showed up in my office, gave me a “gift” and told me it is 30 years reunion time. Alumni Office must be too well endowed or really in need for more.
So quid-pro-quo, I asked her to track down my favorite undergrad professor PG.
A few hours later, she text me. " I got him" Like FBI, they ALWAYS find their men. LOL.
He retired to Berkeley, is living amongst student dorm, spending 20 hours a week taking all kinds of classes. I mean ALL kinds of classes. He said it is greatest public university in this world !
That is my favorite professor ! No pretense, no guile !
I was just a late teenager, when I took his class two scores years ago. He must have legions of students under his guidance at UF. But he always had the time to sit and shoot the breeze with me, for hours. When I ask him for recommendation, he wrote me solid three page recommendation, personal, non pedantic.
On my next visit to Berkeley, I really want to visit him again. I always thought the San Francisco is too expensive for elderly. I never knew expensive San Francisco is retire-able !!
" At the very top public colleges such as Berkeley, the honors program is intended as an educational supplement for the highly motivated students. Members of the honors program can be given freedom to help design their curriculum or take courses that may typically limited to graduate students."
That really brought me a smile today.
Those are the non pedantic professors that change lives. They are at UF, they are at UCF, they are at FIU.
I really don’t care if I meet them at Harvard, or not.
@SteyrFWB
I loved your anecdote!!! A great testimony to a great prof…i had a few of them at the university of Tenn.
I think an honors program is what the individual student makes it…not so much the intention of the university. One can just breeze thru or one can get to know the staff and use the resources afforded or if so inclined stretch the boundaries and become the catalyst for additional services provided to all who want to achieve more.
To put these programs into categories or to hype one over the other is unfortunate…just my opinion.