I have a daughter her was accepted to UIUC’s Pre Engineering, UW Madison’s Biomed Engineering & Purdue’s First year Engineering. We are Illinois residents and due to costs we immediately ruled out Purdue & UW Madison since UIUC was giving her the most Financial Aid with the help of a 10k President’s Award Honors Scholarship. That is until I started reading threads on this website and am now a very concerned parent with the UIUC Pre engineering rigor and the bad experiences lots have posted about it. UIUC is offering the best aid and the next close is Wisconsin at a distant 20k difference. The only reason we would consider Wisconsin is due to fear of my daughter losing interest in UIUC due to the pressures and stress I’ve read about and obviously not making the cut. We cannot afford 20k for Wisconsin but would encourage her to hit the scholarship application train for the rest of the 3 years with fingers crossed. Am I simply freaking out about UIUC’s Pre program or is my thought reasonable? Desperate Dad looking for advise and peace of mind.
@ucbalumnus has better command of the hurdles to advance into major at UW, Purdue and Illinois. My understanding though is that they are all competitive. Last I looked at UW the hurdles were very high. My gut would say stay in Illinois. Engineering is challenging everywhere. Stress is what one makes of it. @boneh3ad can speak more directly to the UIUC experience. Congrats to her on three solid options!
I don’t know anything about the pre engineering program at UIUC but both Purdue and Wisconsin are not direct admit to major either. There is a first year engineering curriculum and then a transition to major at the end of freshman year.
I agree that engineering is going to be challenging anywhere. But, this is the way my D looked at it (she’s finishing her second year of chem e at Purdue) - she told us if she couldn’t make the grades in freshman intro courses that trying to push through harder engineering courses were going to be next to impossible. In her opinion, having a baseline GPA requirements helps students identify their strengths and weaknesses earlier, and make adjustments to their major accordingly. Schools also don’t want students unable to graduate or have GPAs so low that they don’t get job offers.
Here’s the rest of my D’s advice for a nervous incoming freshman engineering student -
Don’t be afraid to ask for help! (This can’t be stressed enough)
Go to every office hour and help session available to you, even if you understand the material fully. There will always be questions on exams that were covered in review sessions and maybe no where else.
Join a study group as soon as possible.
Don’t skip class. Ever.
Turn in every assignment, even if a course allows you to drop something.
So, IMO, it’s definitely not worth spending more money to go out of state! Deep breath dad, your D has got this! They wouldn’t have admitted her if they didn’t think she’d be successful.
My experience at UIUC was over a decade ago and things have changed a lot. Pre-engineering was not a thing almost anywhere when I was an undergraduate as far as I know. It’s a pretty strong trend now at a lot of schools, though. In general, I feel a lot less negative toward pre-engineering than @ucbalumnus does.
Thank you all. Definitely relieves the uncertainty I’ve been dealing with. I can take a deep breath now @momofsenior1
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/2174743-first-year-engineering-programs-secondary-admission-to-major-criteria.html has pointers to Purdue and Wisconsin policies.
UIUC is predominantly direct admit to engineering majors. Students not directly admitted may get into the pre-engineering program: https://dgs.illinois.edu/current-pre-engineering . Unfortunately, bioengineering is one of the most competitive majors to get into; that page (click “major capacities”) says that a 3.75 overall and technical college GPA is needed to apply into a competitive review for bioengineering (and CS and mechanical engineering). Some other majors have automatic admission at 3.00, 3.25, 3.50, or 3.75 overall and technical college GPA.
BME was the most competitive major at Purdue too. It was the only major that people who met the GPA threshold were still turned away. The university had to create a secondary process for admission.
That said, there are so many other overlapping majors - mech e, bio e, chem e that those students who got their second choices, are arguably more employable, and still able to get jobs in bio tech fields.
At UIUC, getting into mechanical engineering is also highly competitive. Chemical engineering is in the LAS division instead of the engineering division, and changing into it is described at https://chbe.illinois.edu/undergraduate/apply-to-chbe-at-illinois/transfer-students/ .
How much prospective students should be concerned depends on (a) how difficult it is to get into the desired major, and (b) how transparent the college is about how difficult it is to get into each major.
Some colleges like Michigan and Pittsburgh require only a 2.0 GPA and C grades for first year engineering students to choose any engineering major. Others may make it much more difficult, such as UIUC students trying to get into bioengineering, computer science, or mechanical engineering, where they need a 3.75 overall and technical GPA to apply into a competitive admission process.
Some colleges where there is a competitive process are more transparent about historical admission to major than others. The less transparent ones sometimes get complaints that it is much more competitive than information given to prospective new students suggests.
I fall along the same lines as @ucbalumnus on this. My disdain of pre-engineering is indirectly proportional to the ease of which one can achieve admission to their desired major.
I’d argue there is a happy medium and neither of the above examples is great. A 3.75 bar is a bit crazy. A 2.0 bar is equally crazy.
Thank you all for your feedback. I agree that a 3.75 bar at UIUC pre E is crazy and that’s what’s driving me crazy! I certainly want my D to be happy and in an environment that can help her succeed. I’m nervous that environment doesn’t exist there. We’re down to these choices…U/Iowa & UIUC offered her almost a full ride. Wisconsin is over 25k yr. Purdue over 30k yr. I hear Iowa isn’t a strong E school.
It is great to have a long term goal when entering university that includes an engineering degree in a particular discipline. At the same time be sure that D knows that graduating with any degree is an accomplishment. I say this because goals change and students change majors frequently and in the end you just want her to be happy with wherever her studies take her. Thinking this way may take away some of the stress. Good luck!
Summary:
Iowa: almost full ride, no apparent barriers to declaring or changing engineering major: https://www.engineering.uiowa.edu/sites/www.engineering.uiowa.edu/files/frequently-asked-questions-202001.pdf
UIUC: almost full ride, 3.75 GPA + competitive admission for bioengineering, mechanical engineering, or computer science major, other engineering majors have their own thresholds of 3.00 to 3.75 for automatic admission: https://dgs.illinois.edu/current-pre-engineering
Wisconsin: >$25k per year, 3.5 technical and 3.0 overall GPA to enter or stay in bioengineering major; others have different thresholds: https://www.engr.wisc.edu/academics/student-services/academic-advising/first-year-undergraduate-students/progression-requirements/
Purdue: >$30k per year, 3.2 technical and overall GPA to guarantee choice of major: https://engineering.purdue.edu/Engr/InfoFor/CurrentStudents/enrollment-policy .
If cost and choice of major are important, Iowa appears to be the clear winner.
Yea, I agree with @ucbalumnus. The best engineering program is the one a student gets into, can afford, AND can graduate from with the degree they want. My son’s boss is an authority on what he does an he went to a little school no one has heard of. Engineering is pretty egalitarian. She might get a few different, even possibly more opportunities at the other schools, but all of that is for naught is she doesn’t graduate or is saddled with crushing debt to start her career. Servicing $100k+ of debt is hard, IF she can even get it. I say Go Hawkeyes!
I’ve actually heard good things about Iowa’s program. Many people near where I live in IL have their kids there.
It’s engineering. The classes are going to be similar wherever she goes. What’s going to set your D apart is what she’s going to do in the next 4 years for internships, research, leadership on campus, etc… It’s not the name of the school on the degree that’s going to get her hired.
If the Society of Women Engineers (SWE) chapter is strong there. I’d suggest she get involved right away. There are lots of opportunities, especially during the earlier years for women at companies trying to increase their gender balance. It’s all about networking and SWE is a great way to get started in that direction.
"U/Iowa & UIUC offered her almost a full ride. " - That is awesome!! (and I think rather rare?) That would put them at the top of my list.
I wish I saw this earlier. @ucbalumnus is correct. “Preenginerring” at Illinois is basically the students that were not strong enough to be accepted directly into engineering in their eyes. It’s a grind and more of a weed out to get into engineering. What you read about elsewhere is mostly correct. UIUC engineering is not all roses and hand holding. If their setting baselines to get in that are that high… Well… Engineering is tough everywhere. Tougher at UIUC. I know many at all your colleges. Just go to Iowa and don’t look back. Many Illinois kids go to Iowa and Iowa State for engineering. All love their experiences. My son was accepted into engineering directly at UIUC (but at Michigan). It was the first year they offered the Preenginerring track. Some of his friends were offered it but went elsewhere since they were direct admits. Also Wisconsin even if accepted into engineering it’s still not direct admit until you hit their marks. Sorta misleading.
If she goes to UIUC or any school listen to the above advice. Get help, peer to peer math /science labs etc. I know someone at Iowa whose whole family are Iowa engineers. She’s a straight A student. She had a very bad first semester for her. When I asked her how it’s going she said "Doc, Iowa engineering kicked my butt (insert another word… Lol). Seen her recently and she’s back on track and loving her experience.
Her advice… Get help earlier even if you think you don’t need it
Thank you all for your replies and feedback. Grateful for your time. Will be very helpful in making a decision the next few days.