UK 2018

@twoin18 - if he really liked Oxford, it would seem that he might also be happy at Durham or St A’s, both of which have more of a campus atmosphere. UCL/KCL are great schools but as others have mentioned are very urban and once you have to go off-campus in second year, can be quite expensive for housing, living costs and commuting expense.

@BostonMomof3 Congrats!! That is wonderful! My DD is applying to UofE, any pros or cons you can share with me? She’s applying to their joint degree program French/History. Thank you!!

@londondad Hi, not sure if you remember me but you were very helpful when my DD was trying to get into Univ of Richmond & her pain at being denied at W&M. She is at UR, but it’s too isolated after all & feels too small, too cut off. She was in the U.K. with her AP class last summer & fell in love with Univ of Edinburgh. The application deadline for transfers is Monday & we’re frantically researching as we just caved & allowed her to apply. You seem to know a lot about it, do you know if she can be in the dorms there for all 4 yrs? If not, is it crazy $ to get an apt & do you know how much of a campus it has? I would appreciate any thoughts you might have, thank you!

@cloudysmom Let me check with my daughter - she has friends at Edinburgh and they all love it. By way of background, many of the London kids do not stay in London when they go to Uni as they are likely to come back to London afterwards. Edinburgh is probably the second best city in the UK so is a very popular spot for Uni among students who grew up in London.

@londondad Great, thank you!

A room in a shared apartment is about 650 dollars a month with utilities. Dorms are about the same, and nobody stays at dorms for 4 years by choice.

@jupiter98 Thanks, I was thinking most would want to move out. Do you know how many years the kids do stay in the dorms? Do you have any insight on how much of a campus feel UofE has? Thank you.

@londondad Thanks for the suggestions. Durham seems like a possibility, though its not particularly easy to get there. I suppose you fly via London to Newcastle and get the train/bus. Also its not clear to me whether it is known at all in the US.

The challenge with St Andrews (apart from the four year course) is that they don’t offer PPE and so with a very PPE-focused Personal Statement applying at this late date for IR (which would clearly show its the result of an Oxford rejection) might seem like phoning it in.

It appears Warwick also has a decent PPE course, but the architecture would be a bit of a jarring contrast to Oxford. My sister-in-law describes it as “a good name, but a bit of a concrete jungle, 70s build campus”. She said about Durham “great reputation [in the UK], beautiful, lots of expensive balls and dinner parties”. When I was growing up it was THE place to go for Oxbridge rejects and that still seems to be the case.

Her summary of Durham vs Warwick: “Culturally they are worlds apart. Durham is probably more snobbish than Oxbridge, it’s collegiate and fairly gentle: a small town with not much night life. Warwick has no airs and graces at all, is more urban and has a pole dancing pole in the middle of the student building!” But they know UK kids at each place who are enjoying themselves.

@cloudysmom they usually stay at dorms for one year. Not much of a campus feel, it is a spread out urban uni, exact opposite of UR.

@jupiter98 Just one year? Ugh, ok. I know most of these are urban campuses very unlike UR but that is what she really seems to want. Even GW, where she is considering applying, has a tiny campus and no dining hall. I really don’t like that but she does. She said and I have heard that there is a little campus, they have 5 student unions and she was in an area where there was a campus, just a small part of it. I just saw they have a dining hall and it seems like a large dorm area. I guess she could live in the dorms longer if the school would let her, she doesn’t care that much about being cool, lol. Thank you!

@cloudysmom you are talking about Pollock Halls. It is too far out, she does not want to be there. Look at central locations, close to George Square, selfcatering.

Typically UK students rent houses in small groups of 3 or 4 friends rather than apartments once they’re no longer in halls (dorms).

When we visited Edinburgh, I thought Pollock Halls was actually a good option for the first year. It’s a self-contained campus of dorms, so the kids must all get to know each other. And there are shuttles or can walk to the main campus. The main campus seems pretty central, and there are lots of student unions, bars, and restaurants all in the central location. And since at UK unis you mostly focus on your subject area, most of your classes will always be in the same general buildings I would think. I do think after getting used to being in the UK the first year, it probably makes sense to move off campus (like many US colleges).

If I can chime in @Twoin18 - I am also British and have family in the UK! my daughter and I toured Warwick (agree with your assessment) and my daughter loved Durham, for the reasons you have also stated - she will be studying Law - I think if the Uni has a great reputation and the course which your son (?) is interested in is high on the league tables for each Uni, then I think it’s a case of where would he/she be happiest at - my daughter happens to like the old buildings, and pomp and ceremony that Durham offer. Durham is about 3hrs 15mins on the train direct from London Kings Cross, and it’s a scenic ride. She also did not want to do a 4 yr course!

On housing it’s at St Andrew’s not Edinburgh but my daughter and three of her friends found a house for next year in November and already signed a lease. That seems pretty typical. Back last year I just assumed she would stay in the dorm for more than one year but I underestimated how comfortable she would get with this system when she was there. The key was to get a group together and start looking early.

@Twoin18 and @cloudysmom In response to your earlier questions:

Edinburgh - It seems that Edinburgh only guarantees housing for the first year. Here is the website: http://www.accom.ed.ac.uk/for-students/undergraduates/undergraduate-guarantee/

I seem to recall that I had read somewhere that some universities will often guarantee housing for all 3 or 4 years for international students but I am not sure which schools do this. It is worth checking on this once she gets her offer. One of dd’s friends has ended up in the international dorm at Edinburgh (which she likes) although she is English. Also, in Brit-speak “University Accommodation” does not always mean the same as on-campus housing in the USA. While many residence halls are similar to the USA (large dorms located on campus within easy walking distance of classes) many others 1) not owned by the University (but privately owned by professional real estate firms leased under nomination agreements with the Uni and/or 2) are not on campus but either in the central city or in residential areas. At Bristol, one of the most popular first year housing options is a cluster of several dorms which is a 45 minute walk (or a long slow bus ride) from campus. It is popular as there are lots of students in this cluster and they share a dining hall. Surprisingly the Uni does not provide bus transport from these dorms the students need to rely on the unreliable Bristol bus system.

Lastly, as @VickiSoCal articulates very well in post #213, the kids need to start looking for potential roommates by October/November as the better places to live for 2nd year are getting leased in January of first year. This is similar to UVA and other US large Universities.

The exceptions to the above are Oxford, Cambridge and Durham which have college systems within the Universities so the majority of students stay in University accommodation during their undergrad years.

Durham - Durham is a great school in a great college town and is a very popular choice for smart kids who do not get into Oxbridge. I believe that it is well regarded internationally. While it is fairly easy to get there from here with hourly trains from Kings X, some students find it a bit remote and the town small (similar complaints that you might hear about, say, Middlebury from US students).

Recently, it appears that Durham is trying to bill itself as the #3 school in the UK and distance itself from the other non-Oxbridge Unis in its tier (Bristol, Warwick, Edinburgh, UCL, LSE, Imperial, Edinburgh and St. A’s among others). I do not really buy this as in the UK, particularly at these top Unis) the quality of the actual course (i.e., major) is much more important than the overall school. Recently my daughter told her that a friend at another school was referring to “Doxbridge” combining Durham with Oxbridge in an exclusive top tier of schools which is really not accurate, although Durham is a great school.

Warwick - is a relatively young Uni but is now considered in the top tier for a number of subjects. Its Econ and Business subjects are top notch and many of the big US I-banks recruit from it. I was there a few years ago as my daughter was in a quiz competition there when she was 12. I was shocked how remote it was (it is halfway between Warwick and Coventry) and the buildings to me looked like a big US high school or community college. As a result, for 2nd year, many of the kids have to find private accommodation in Coventry and commute up to one hour by bus to Uni.

Thanks @londondad and @Funniestgirl, I really appreciate the input. After much debate, he thinks being in London would be the best option, especially as it is a lot closer to family and friends than Durham. So we’re going to add a couple of LSE courses (we’d previously left out their PPE course because it is 4 years, but others like Politics and Philosophy are just 3 years), even though an offer might be conditional on 5s in some of his remaining APs.

We’ll see at the end of the day, but it may be hard to decide between UC Berkeley/UCLA and these London schools if he ultimately has both options. Interestingly Berkeley and LSE have a junior year exchange program so he could consider that possibility too.

On the post offer day visit in Edinburgh last March, my daughter and I actually walked from every dorm to the Appleton tower where she would have most of her classes. We wanted to see how long it would take and what the neighborhood was like from the dorm to the main campus. We did the same for Glasgow. It was a big help when she was applying for accommodations and had to rank her dorm preferences.

@KaffeineKitty So fantastic you would do that - so please share, what did you think?

Edinburgh - all the halls are different and scattered around town. All were in safe areas. We would even wait a few minutes outside the dorm and ask an incoming student if we could take a look around. That was over 9 months ago, and i don’t remember the names of each hall, but we did not find Pollack too far away. Students in Pollack said the meals, while ok, get old fast and recommended the uncatered Fraser Hall.

Glasgow- Murano is too far away and the walk to campus is through so so areas. Would have to take Ubers home after a night out. Kelvingate and Cairncross are fine. We thought Kelvingate was a bit nicer because it had ensuite bathrooms. Both are about a brisk 10 min walk to main campus. My daughter is in “Student Apartments” on Hillhead street- right in the middle of campus. Her hall is a renovated victorian building with very large rooms. None of the halls have meal plans, but they do have kitchens that the students share.

@KaffeineKitty Thank you! How far to campus are most dorms do you think & aren’t there any right on campus, I mean, I know it’s spread around a city but I saw pictures of a very large housing complex, sort of ugly & contemporary but nevertheless a true complex, lol. It looked wooded & grassy around it, not cityish.

Re: uncatered Fraiser Hall, what does uncatered mean? Thanks!