<p>My son, an international student attending IB full diploma program with predicted grades of 41 plus bonus points, has been accepted to UK Imperial Engineering College and he also is just accepted to Cornell Engineering College. in addition to U Michigan. He is still waiting for the admissions decisions from other prestigious schools in the US including Stanford and U Penn.</p>
<p>My question is "Should he go to Imperial College where he'll be pretty much focussed on the engineering courses or should he go to Cornell where he is given choices on a much broader range of engineering and social sciences courses, particularly during the first two years?"</p>
<p>Of course, if he goes to US, he will have to spend one more year, four instead of three.</p>
<p>What are the pros and cons? </p>
<p>Thank you very much for all you help and advice.</p>
<p>This sounds like a question you should be asking him. Price issues aside, if he's absolutely sure he wants to do engineering, if he has an interest in tech and is already immersed in the culture and design and knows what he's getting into, then a pure tech school would probably be the best environment to encourage growth in that. If he is at all uncertain or is a Renaissance type person who has a broad interests in a wide variety of fields, then I would probably recommend a non-institute of technology. </p>
<p>4 years vs. 3 years should not at all be an issue, unless your son is a 12 year old prodigy who's only held back by academia. I'm guessing not. College growth is only partly academic, much of it is social.</p>
<p>I've heard of Imperial College before, so I assume it's really good, but - again if price isn't an issue - I would imagine thatCornell and definitely Stanford would be better choices regardless of whether he is a techie or broad-minded student. Hopefully someone else who knows Imperial better can offer a better comparison with UMich and UPenn.</p>
<p>Another question... what field does he plan on going into?</p>
<p>I ask because my field is civil engineering, and I do structural designs for buildings... It's moderately difficult to transfer between the US and Europe, career-wise, as a civil engineer because of the differences in national building codes. Most US schools work under the presumption that their engineers will end up working here in the States, so there's a decided slant towards looking at the building codes <em>here</em> rather than at building codes <em>everywhere</em>. (The steel code is the AISC, American Institute of Steel Construction... the concrete code is the ACI, the American Concrete Institute... etc., and these are used heavily in the teachings of steel design and concrete design.)</p>
<p>If your son is interested in civ at all, it might be something to keep in mind.</p>
<p>Depends on final work location. Despite it's good reputation abroad, Imperial is not known very well within the States aside from research circles.</p>
<p>With the exception of Cornell, "Ivy League Engineering" is pretty much an oxymoron. I'm sure that the rest of them are better than some, and some worse than other ABET accredited institutions. Thus is the nature of the engineering beast, so no real surprise there. </p>
<p>Prestige by association is what is at play here. Flame suit on.</p>
<p>He's more into environmental/computer engineering and has good background in math (Sat II: 780 Math). But he also likes to explore other areas that can be part of his coursework. Thanks a lot for your comments. I greatly appreciate it.</p>
<p>Thank all of you folks! My s will have a final say in decision making. He will ask me for comments but he definitely will make his own decision. After all, it's his future and his life. I just want to broaden my perspective and to make sure to have all points pretty much covered when discussing with him.</p>
<p>For reference, according to 2007 world rankings overall by Shanghai Jiao Tong; Cornell is ranked 12th overall Imperial 23rd overall; in Engineering Cornell 15th Imperial 27th. But by Times '07 world rankings; Cornell 15th Imperial 5th overall; also by Times '06; Cornell ranked 28th, Imperial 4th.</p>
<p>I do understand one cannot just go by numbers. Other important factors must be weighed; learning environment, focussed course program vs broader but in-depth teaching/learning philosophy, internships, possibilities of doing research work, prospects of getting into good graduate school etc. etc.</p>
<p>Anyways, I would very much like to hear your comments and viewpoints as to pros and cons on going to UK Imperial vs US elite/ivy leaque engineering schools. Again many thks.</p>
<p>I am sure you are from Thailand right :D?... From what happened in my school..and the people I know, they chose IVY league school over UK college (not counting Cambridge and oxford ofcourse) and I feel that there are alot more opportunity of going to US than to UK, and I feel that Thai students in Ivy league schools are smarter and more hard working than UK schools(also not counting oxford and cambridge).</p>
<p>The Shanghai Jiao Tong university ranking is a much better indicator of the "perceived" prestige in east asian countries. The times 2007 ranking is just not accurate; stanford is no.19 and berkeley no.22</p>
<p>As you already know, Imperial college is very focussed on a specific engineering discipline since day 1. There are very few opportunity for exploring other areas at IC, whereas the US universities offers a broader curriculum. Also, if your son decided to go to Imperial and then later discovers that environmental or computer engineering is not his passion then he will have to reapply to another course, which will both waste time and money. Plus, theres no guarantee imperial will accept his application to do another course.</p>
<p>The top engineering schools in the US are generally as follows:
MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/Caltech
Cornell/Michigan/Illinois/CMU/GTech/UCLA</p>
<p>In my opinion, I would definitely choose any schools on this list over Imperial college in a heart beat, assuming I am interested in engineering. They have comparable if not superior engineering education than Imperial college, and a more balanced education which I think is very important. If your son had gotten into Oxbridge then that would be another story, but since you're considering Imperial college I will assume that he either didnt apply to Oxbridge or did not get accepted.</p>
<p>A predicted score of 41 in IB is excellent, on par with those accepted at top engineering programs. Did your son apply to MIT/Berkeley/Caltech?</p>
<p>student276114 your point very well taken and much appreciated. Yes, he did apply to other schools, including Berkeley and CMU. How about going to Imperial undergrad program and then to grad schools in the US?</p>
<p>As for times 2007 world rankings, I found it a bit of a bias towards UK schools, because of the methodology conducted and the way peers review used. Stanford dropped from #6 in '06 to #19 in '07 and Berkeley from #8 in '06 to #22 in '07, all this in one year! Many other schools rankings faced more or less the similar outcome.</p>
<p>Most people who do engineering in the UK actually do stay on for a 4th year. If you actually want to become an engineer in the UK (as opposed to using the degree to do something else) you really need to do the optional 4th year to get an MEng. It's a way of getting what is known as an 'undergraduate masters', an MA for the price of a BA really.</p>
<p>I'm not an engineer so I am no expert on this, but I know it's the norm in the hard sciences in the UK. In other words, don't bet on a 3 year course saving you money!</p>
<p>cupcake:
That is true that most people stay on for the 4th year. I believe that the student has to choose between the MEng vs BEng (4 years vs 3 years) by the end of their 2nd year.</p>
<p>prasongowlarn:
I think it really depends on your son's preference, whether he would want a more engineering focused curriculum or to be able to explore other areas. If your son is unsure about which engineering he wants to pursue, I would strongly recommend him against Imperial college since it can be a headache trying to change degree. Nevertheless they are all good schools, the final decision should come down to individual preference and fit. Good luck!</p>
<p>cupcake: You made really valid point. Almost everyone would likely take the MEng program before end of the second year, since BEng is not really considered a pro level yet. By the way, did you attend or are now attending Oxford? I notice your location is in Oxford; so I just assumed. Thanks a lot for your advice.</p>
<p>student276114: As I said, it will all boil down to his preference and ultimate decision. He's good at math and definitely wants to be in engineering but what specific area of engineering, he wants to start with environmental/computer engineering and explores other areas as well.</p>
<p>Wow, I actually have the same dilemna as your son! I got accepted into Imperial College for Electrical and Electronic Engineering, but also into schools in the US, like Rice and Duke.
I heard from my counselor and other people that UK and US universities have very different styles. He said ICL seems to be more of an independent place, with bigger class sizes, larger student body, etc. US universities have more of the 'community feel' that comes with a smaller student body, class sizes. Can anyone verify if this information is accurate?
Personally, I am leaning more towards the US. Compared to the UK, it is also cheaper. ICL costs about 60k a year (including living costs), while most US unis cost 50k.</p>
<p>Well, there are some major differences in approach and thinking philosophy between UK and US universities. For one, UK colleges in general, perhaps engineering in particular, you have to go way right to the subject areas of concentration, your so-called Major, from day one. The thinking behind is that you have chosen your path already since high school days where you want to go into. Once admitted, there are only limited flexibilities. As for US colleges in general, and LACs in particular, you are given choices to explore different areas in your "Major" as well as in other areas outside your Major (either in related fields and/or electives outside the Major). The US learning philosophy is if you want to be a good engineer, you have to know inside out not only engineering stuff, but also other humanities/social sciences; human behavior, history, arts, communications etc. As an engineer, you also will learn how people think, want, interact with the world. You learn how to present yourself in writing and verbal communications with effective presentation. That's why you're given two years before end of sophomore to officially declare your Major. And that's what is good about the US higher education system.</p>
<p>As for class sizes, I am not sure. It all depends on each college. As for state universities including UC Berkeley, U Michigan with student body of well over 30plus K, many of the classes in intro courses and in freshmen and sophomore can run into hundreds.</p>
<p>Among the worlds top 30 schools, US colleges dominate the scene, by all rankings. But in computer engineering in UK, Imperial may be second only to Crambridge but a lot of peers view Imperial as no.1.</p>
<p>So it's a tough choice. One can always say go where you heart wants to go, but that's the whole point. It's too close a call!</p>
<p>"So it's a tough choice. One can always say go where you heart wants to go, but that's the whole point. It's too close a call!"</p>
<p>Haha, thats too true. And I am an international student from Indonesia, so visiting the schools is not really an option. Btw, are international rankings accurate? It seems like they are biased, and they focus more on research output and don't take into account the quality of education.</p>
<p>Btw, nice spelling of "Crambridge" :D Was that done on purpose?</p>
<p>in the UK: the only force that can beat imperial is oxbridge. imperial with LSE, UCL, possibly KCL are only unis that can compete with oxbridge.</p>