UK Medical Schools (Undergrad) Chances: USA Applicant

Pre-Med & Medical School Foreign Medical Education
1

Hi CC!

(I would like to apologise in advance if I appear cocky and trying to “show off.” I try my best to be modest, but as some people have said in the forums, it is “American Culture” to be braggy, even if it is unintentional. Sorry! I just want to provide you guys with the most information I can give you, so that you can have a clearer image of my qualifications or standing.)

I’ve been lurking on this site for quite some time now, but I haven’t found the answer to some of my questions. I’ve read through about a 100 pages of replies and researched the university sites themselves. Still I have questions that remain unanswered.

My question is basically, do I have a shot at these schools? I know you have to take the BMAT and UKCAT for some of these schools, and that all of them are extremely competitive. The medical schools I am looking into are:

Imperial College London
University College London|
King’s College
Bart’s School of Medicine
University of Bristol
University of Edinburgh
University of Manchester
University of Oxford

I would like to say I have read up on the basic rules of the UCAS system;I am aware I can only apply to 4 medical schools via the UCAS system. So as of now, my top picks (that I believe I have a potential at getting into) would be:

Imperial College London
University College London
University Manchester
University of Edinburgh or University of Bristol

Firstly I will list my relevant qualifications:

Rising Senior at a High School on Long Island, NY

AP Scores:

AP Biology - 5
AP Chemistry - 5
AP Physics (1 and 2; two separate test) (Predicted) - 4 or 5

SAT II Scores:

Biology - 780
Chemistry - 800
Physics - 710 (will retake)

SAT (First try, results from June test will come out in 3 weeks; I expect to superscore and have a much higher grade):

Net: 2040
Reading: 710
Math: 650
Writing: 680

AP taking next year:

Calculus BC
Physics C (Both Tests)
Statistics
Psychology
Literature
U.S Government

Independent Study: (These are actually taught by school staff, I won’t be learning them on my own)

Multi-Variable Calculus (One step above BC Calc, One step behind Linear Algebra

Extracurricular Activities:

  1. Independent Research at University: Last summer I did research on the neuronal membrane protein, Nuregulin-1 Type 3, and see if the intracellular domain of the protein influences apoptotic factors in the cell. This summer I will be working on an independent research project dealing with Sepsis. ( Research last summer at Stony Brook University, Research this summer will be at the Feinstien Institute of Medical Research, apart of the North Shore LIJ health care system).
  2. Hospital Volunteer: Over the summer I will be volunteering at a hospital, doing both clerical and patient care tasks. Unfortunately, I won't actually have any "clinical" experience as the hospital does not offer shadowing doctors. It is also quite a uncommon thing to do in my area and the NYC area.

Volunteering related to kids, because I want to do Surgery, specifically pediatrics

  1. Chinese School Teacher’s Assistant: I’v been doing this for about 4 years now. Working with kids.
  1. Guatemala Mission Trip: I didn't do this just for college resume and what not, I did this back in the summer of my 9th grade, when i didn't even care about college. I just genuinely wanted to go and help a christian ministry there. ___________________________________________________ Irrelevant Details:

AP Scores:

AP European History: 5
AP US History: 5
AP Language and Composition (Predicted): 4 or 5

SAT II Scores:
US: 720

GPA: 97/100
Rank: School doesn’t rank

So, based on that any ideas? Back in April, I met with one of the international student-recruiters from Oxford University in NYC and asked her about my credentials, and she said that it was what Oxford was looking for. She also told me that only 1% of international applicants actually make it, so that kind of deters my decision from applying to Oxford. She said it wasn’t that students weren’t qualified, it was that there was just so many applicants, Oxford can’t take everyone.

So! Please help me in anyway you can! Any information will be much appreciated!

Thank you so much! (Sorry for being so verbose)

2

The important question is not whether you can get accepted to a UK med school, but where do you plan to practice medicine?

If you plan to practice in the UK, please read up/research on the availability of post grad (residency) training slots for non-UK/non-EU med grads in UK and Europe. (IIRC, it’s difficult to get one unless you hold dual citizenship or permanent resident status in the UK or a EU country.)

If you plan to practice in the US, you need to be aware that you are required to complete a US residency in order to get a license to practice medicine in the US. As a US IMG (US international medical grad), you are at a very great disadvantage in matching into any US medical residency. (And forget competitive ones!) Fewer than half of US IMGs are able to match into a medical residency in any given year and the competition is only getting tougher as more US medical seats open up. (More US med school grads = fewer positions for IMGs and FMGs)


I have to ask why you want to study medicine in the UK? 

Because it cuts a year or two off the traditional pathway? There are  6 & 7 year BS/MD programs in the US.

Because it's less expensive? It won't be if you graduate and can't find a post-grad training slot.

Because you want to study somewhere other than the US? Do a semester or year abroad during undergrad.

Hate to rain your idea, but you need to look at your long term goal (becoming a practicing physician) before making any decisions.
3

Oh sorry if I wasn’t clear!
If accepted into a UK medical school, I would definitely without doubt practice medicine in the UK. Hopefully I would be able to live in the UK one day. In regards to your statement about post-grade training, I never knew that was a component. Sorry for my ignorance on the subject, but I assumed that after your 6 years at Uni, you would automatically be assimilated into the NHS and receive further training from there. I didn’t know there was so much else to consider. As of now, I was merely considering if I had the credentials to even get into these schools.

On the topic of "why," I want to attend medical school in Europe not because of any of those reasons. I know that those BS/MD programs exist, even MD/Ph.D programs exist in universities near me. I know it won't be any cheaper, in fact it is more expensive than any ivy league school I have considered (Mainly Cornell, because I am a NY State resident, Cornell Tuition is cheaper for me. I want to study in England because I want to practice medicine in England. Which makes no sense, but I also want to live in England, become a part of the English culture, the European culture. I don't know America. Lived here long enough. This summer when I was in England for two months, I fell in love. I wasn't merely in London. I stayed with my family in suburbs around large cities such as Sheffield and Brighton. I lived not in the advertised cities on England, but with real English people. I love the culture, I love the people, I love the principles and values English people have. I find that not only do I love the culture more than America, I love find it suits me better.

So please, if you have any information, please do tell me if I have the qualifications to meet and rise above the standards.

4

Good job on doing a lot of homework before coming in- and then on asking clear, specific questions.

So, first things first: your info from the Oxford rep is correct as far as it goes, but seems to be missing one key point: each medical school in the UK is limited in the number of non-EU med students it can accept: 7.5% of each class. Oxford, for example, is limited to 6 non-EU students each year. However, every year there are newspaper stories of UK students with perfect marks who don’t get in, and the med schools are bashed for taking foreigners over citizens, so despite the attractive fees that come with international students, many unis do not take their whole quota. Again, using Oxford as an example, they typically only take 1 or 2 per year. You can check for yourself how many non-EU students each of your preferred schools typically accepts, but be aware that many of them prioritize applicants from countries with little or poor medical training infrastructure.

After you finish the standard 5 year course you do a 2-year Foundation course (sort of like a US internship, except not just in hospitals- clinics, etc.). You have to apply for these- they are competitive (there are a few options that don’t involve Foundation, but they are exceptional). I know that doing medical school in the UK makes you eligible, but I don’t know what (if any) visa requirements there are for this training. Then there are 2-5 years of specializing (similar to residency in the US).

This brings us to the pesky issue of visas. It is true that the UK is short of doctors and it is one of the best visa options for non-EU citizens. However, that does not make it easy or certain. I think that the visa you need to do the Foundation course is the PFT, but I really don’t know. What I do know is that once you are no longer in a training role you have to get a work permit, and although I would fancy your chances, it would be unfair not to warn you that the process can be very long, hard and quite unpleasant! (not that I imagine that will deter you- forewarned is forearmed). After you have had a work visa for four years you can apply for permanent settlement.

Hope that helps a bit.

5

To College mom,

Thank you very much! That was very informational. However, you didn’t mention my chances at these schools. Would you be able to comment on my qualifications and see if there is anything I should be doing or adding? Am I competitive enough to make it into the pool and not be rejected immediately?

6

Your scores are more than good enough to clear the first hurdle. The next hurdle is the BMAT/UKCAT. Aside from prepping for those, the main things you can do now are to try and get more experience in medical environments and work on a thoughtful, mature Personal Statement. That will be harder than it seems, as you have a perfectly good medical training system available to you, and your main reason for applying to study medicine in the UK -Anglophilia- will not help your case!

7

Thanks college mom!
Thank you for your answer! Now I know that I need to word my reasons for applying to the UK better. Anglophillia won’t help me.

Do you know any good BMAT or UKCAT study books?

8

Would you have an advantage applying to internships in the US from a British medical school over someone who went to medical school in Grenada or somewhere to a school that is obviously for US students who didn’t get in in the US?

9

No, you would not. And if you did, it’s an advantage over a group where the majority don’t get into residency programs in contrast to US MD grads who only fail to match ~5% of the time.

10

The academic level of someone who got accepted into a British medical school from high school despite their quotas is probably way higher than that of most students going to foreign medical schools for US students because they couldn’t get into US schools. So, it seems reasonable that the student with the British medical degree would have a decent chance at a Us residency. However, this is obviously not an ideal approach if that is your goal.

11

But you’re being trained for a different health system. UK medicine functions in fundamentally different ways than american medicine. Not just general patient care workflow/structure with NHS vs. american insurance but also epidemiology, drug licensing/labeling, etc. I could argue that foreign schools targeted at getting kids into US residencies, even if they have worse quality students at the start, are better situated to match their students to a US residency than a smarter kid with inferior training (aka the american who goes to a british medical school out of high school).

The OP’s stated goals are to live and work in the UK anyway. Given those goals, pursuing UK medical school is a great plan.

12

For an idea of how different another country can be: met up with a college friend recently who graduated from a foreign medical school (and matched into a ROAD specialty at a hospital you’ve heard of). He told me that at his school, they never learn to write patient notes because in the country he trained in, the MS3/4s aren’t allowed to actually do anything to/with patients. They essentially just shadow for 2 straight years. In the states, we start learning to write notes in 2nd year because beginning in 3rd year, we will have some limited responsibilities for examining patients and are expected to write up our findings and propose treatment plans.