UMass Amherst 2024 EA: High-Stats AND In-State AND Denied/Waitlisted

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Massachusetts - Amherst
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How in the heck does funding justify denying equally/better qualified in-state applicants?

This is a thread which is essentially focused on the mission of UMass Amherst (see below) to support in-state students. Most who are participating are parents who are the victims of the woke policies which make the Pioneer Institute report true.

Mission Statement: "“The University’s mission is to provide an affordable and accessible education of high quality and to conduct programs of research and public service that advance knowledge and improve the lives of the people of the Commonwealth, the nation, and the world.” https://www.umass.edu/planning/mission

…“improve the lives of the people of the Commonwealth”… I am not sure accepting less qualified OOS students supports this mission.

Would you concede that in-state students should at least be treated with parity (or better)?

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If I ran the circus, yes, I would give in-state students an admissions boost. I would also increase funding for education at all levels (preK-postgrad).

I would not admit solely by grades/scores.

The relevance to funding is that with decreasing year-over-year equivalent funding from the state, and restrictions on what in-state can cost, the only way left to get funding is from OOS students. (BTW the smallish merit awards I’ve seen reported on CC leave more than in-state amounts to be paid, for the same product, by OOS students.)

There are what, three or four families complaining on CC about this high-stats/deferred situation. I personally know many more admits to U-MA in my role as teacher, including lots of high-stats kids.

Again, everyone has the option of choosing colleges to apply to that focus on stats. The colleges that everyone seems to want - get that way by having holistic admissions (or so it would appear).

When I have advised students on their college applications, it’s sometimes the case that a kid has great scores and grades, but comes across as not what the college would like to admit, for whatever reason. I’m not understanding the reluctance to look inward, even a little bit, having gotten feedback of this sort from U-MA.

BTW a kid living/working on a farm would absolutely have what to say in terms of extra-curricular content. But if McGill is a good match, great!

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You’re so right, my kid is a loser, his essays were garbage, and his recommendations scathing……

The more-reputed colleges that accepted his sorry butt and give him merit scholarships, were too lazy to read them and give him the proper “holistic review” he deserved. Thank you for all the personalized and pedantic feedback.

I must now go look in the mirror!

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My issue is that in this day and age of rising tuition costs plus insane admissions % there are states with auto admit. Then there is umass which in general should be an option for kids like mine. We are borderline pay wise. She has great stats, very solid ec’s, will likely have a very good essay and recs (she’s already been through this once as she is a private school kid and knows how to work the application to her advantage). Why should I be stressing about her not getting into umass? I shouldn’t have to stress about this. And yes, I do absolutely feel entitled because I’ve been paying insanely high taxes in Ma for 20++ years and my kid has busted her butt in school. These are the kids the top state school is supposed to support.

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And thank you @swampyankee for starting this thread. My kid is a junior but I’m quaking in my boots reading the other thread where we got censured.

Were you the one who was going to look into some kind of social media campaign?

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Just to clarify @swampyankee - WL isn’t the same as rejected. Given the over-enrollment of last year’s CS program, it looks like UMass is being conscientious to not over enroll. All schools, particularly state schools, have adjustment years when admittance is particularly hard. My guess is that MANY students will be offered admittance off the wait list. I know it is frustrating, but perhaps a better option than having too many students vying for classes. How can you possibly know that other applicants were less qualified?

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@swampyankee Was UMass your student’s #1 choice?

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@swampyankee - I believe that was uncalled-for. This is an anonymous internet forum and we have not seen your child’s application. It’s reasonable to suggest that there could be issues with a college application that was not offered admission. Your response was over the top and unnecessary. Perhaps when you have spent more time on the CC forums, you will see that it is standard to delve deeper than stats when analyzing admissions decisions.

@one1ofeach - Just being a taxpayer (I am as well) does not entitle one’s children to admission to the state’s flagship university, even with hard work. It’s actually a myth that MA citizens have a higher tax burden relative to services in the Commonwealth, but that may get off-topic for this thread.

The reality is that in 2020 (and for at least a few years now) - college admissions have really ramped up in competitiveness. Schools formerly viewed as “safeties” just are not, for any kid. It’s frequently said on CC that a safety is only a place where you are guaranteed admission or where you are already admitted (and where you can afford to go and where you would be happy to go).

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@swampyankee 100% with you.

I am the one who suggested a social media strategy. I still do. Try @universalhub for someone who has local reach and might be able to recommend a reporter at the Globe. Tag local TV stations and reporters as well. Umass chancellor, Kumble Subbaswamy is also on Twitter (see below)
I think at the very least making next year’s applicants and families aware of the issues is valuable.

The way I see it, @swampyankee has some valid questions with stats to back them up. There is value in examining them and I dont quite get people who say that those who were rejected should do self-reflection. How do you reflect on a process that you dont have clarity on? How do you accurately assess letters of recommendations that you are not allowed to see? Why does asking legitimate questions cause people to come out to defend a process they too do not have clarity on?

The fact that tuition costs are overwhelming has made UMass more of a highly desirable school and these questions become more pressing to more people and should be addressed. Here are mine:

What are the responsibilities of a state school to its residents? Is UMass living up to them?

Is UMass forced to use the OOS and international students to increase available funds? If so, should the state increase funding to increase the number of seats to in state students? Do they have max/min numbers on students admitted from OOS/international? One comment on the argument that the school needs diversity. Boston Latin School is an excellent school that serves the people of Boston. It does not accept those outside the city to increase diversity so I do not buy that argument. UMass could be a school that serves its residents soley if it wanted to.

What does holistic mean to UMass admissions officers? Does 10 mins per application read by temporary staff allow for a truly holistic process?

Should UMass move to binding ED and RD and do away with EA given that many students use UMass as a safety? Which is less of a good strategy these days anyway. Give the students who are committed to the school a chance to demonstrate that and accept accordingly.

Why does UMass hold rejections/waitlists and a few acceptances until mid-January? The vast majority of the acceptances went out by December 26th then there was a 2.5 week delay both this year and last for the rest. This negatively impacts students who then miss Jan 1 and Jan 15th deadlines. If the students who had not been accepted by December knew that their chances were now slim then they could have pivoted. And yes - students should have back ups but why pay application fees/score report fees if this notification could help define whether its warranted. I should also say that the admissions office had stated on Twitter that the batching method was not based on any parameters that anyone guessed (application date, major, etc) but clearly there is significance as if you had not heard by end of December your chances of getting in were low. I think that could be handled better.

Just found this article from Boston Globe by Neil Swidey He is on twitter @neilswidey His DMs are open!

‘ZooMass’ no more. Is turning UMass Amherst into an elite university what the state needs?
Inside Chancellor Kumble Subbaswamy’s savvy plan to transform Massachusetts’ flagship university into ‘Cambridge West.’
Link
https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine/2019/01/08/zoomass-more-turning-umass-amherst-into-elite-university-needed/Xt1wgLom5TfKuZ7glLaPiO/story.html

From the article

Still, there are different implications when the state’s flagship public university becomes less accessible. For starters, there are lots of parents who are dumbfounded — and furious — when their kids get rejection letters from UMass. After all, they grew up when the place was known as “ZooMass,” a safety school more associated with call-the-cops ragers than academic rigor.

More important: How many unpolished applicants with high upsides might this pickier UMass be turning away? People like a young, rough-around-the-edges Rick Kelleher, whom UMass took a chance on a half-century ago and who has never stopped repaying the favor, pal.

After Subbaswamy finishes his fire hose of stats, an evidently impressed Kelleher cracks, “I couldn’t get in today.”

I can’t resist asking them both: Is that a good thing?

@swampyankee is asking a slightly different question - What if UMASS is passing over highly qualified in state students?

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I’m sure they are, and they will join the long list of other state flagships (or highly rated secondary/directional state schools) that do the same. Just some examples:

UIUC
Purdue
UMich
UWisconsin
All of the UC’s except Merced
UF
UTexas
TAMU
Penn State
Pitt
Ohio State
UVA
…I am sure there are more.

Similar conversations are happening in all of these states, and it’s tough to strike the right balance between in-state and out of state/international students…and revenues, and declining state funding. It’s difficult to make the decision to direct more $ to state colleges, when many states’ K-12 school systems are suffering…academically, teacher shortages, LD and mental health support wise, and financially.

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@Mwfan1921 So all the more reason to have these conversations, right?

And find out where the people who make the funding decisions stand on the issues.

Much better than staring at a mirror.

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I get that. I really do. I’m just not convinced that state schools should function in the same way. There are plenty of states doing it differently.

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It was not that long ago, that the Umass system held as an objective to retain top MA students (given that hundreds of other possibilities exist within just our state borders).

They created the full-tuition credit Adams scholarship to retain top public HS students (who have 10th grade MCAS scores in top 25% for their HS). Several years ago, they scaled-back this from 100% to around 10%.

Now there clearly have reversed the objective to a) show they can attract talented students from across the country and globe, b) marginally increase revenue(?).

The despicable case is when they offer the Adams scholarship to retain them, but then due to some competing objective, dismiss them in early action.

My son did nothing to signal UMassA was a safety for him. In fact, based on a value and quality (CS) ranking UMass was a top 3 for him.

That public university admission officers may assume motivations (like UMass is a safety) means the whole application process is a farce, subject more to the whim of an administrator than the merit of the application.

So, remind me again why public universities exist, if not for the benefit of MA students, which in-turn turn into benefits to residents when trained graduates stay in MA and help the state’s eco system.

When schools like UMass walk from this mission, they veer toward selfish self-actualization of the administrators.

So game this out. To reach UMass’s goal to become a Top 20 public university, UMass has to show global student population to affect the 20% of USNWR rating which comes from peer scores from other administrators around the country.

Other than satisfying the ego of administrators, what does it really accomplish, against the mission of a public university? Does climbing, through Machiavellian means, to top 20 ranking help them to raise more money from taxpayers of MA?

I hope discussions like this can help create understanding of the farce, and make future fund-raising more difficult, should UMass continue down this dark path.

Still staring in the mirror, but no new reflections.

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@swampyankee - I think you have some reasonable points about the mission of a state university. However, this is inaccurate:

“They created the full-tuition credit Adams scholarship to retain top public HS students (who have 10th grade MCAS scores in top 25% for their HS). Several years ago, they scaled-back this from 100% to around 10%.”

Unfortunately, this scholarship has always been disappointing, because even though it has (and still does) covered “100% of tuition” - state regulations restrict the “tuition” portion of the bill so that it has never been very much of the total (they call the rest “fees”). This has been the case for at least a decade, likely more, but I didn’t have a kid in the mix longer ago than that.

Also, I don’t think it’s top 25% of most high schools, because I think it requires “Advanced” on all the tests which is less than 25% of most (not all) Massachusetts high schools.

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Did he get into the other 2 schools?

UMass is ranked 64th by USNWR, are the other 2 better ranked(Top 50)?

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Perhaps before you challenge accurate statements being made, you should bother to check a few facts.

The criteria for the Adams Scholarship (https://www.mass.edu/osfa/programs/adams.asp) is shown below:

Who Is Eligible?

Students in the class of 2016 or after must

Score in the Advanced category on one of three high school state assessment tests in English Language Arts, Mathematics, or STE (Biology, Chemistry, Introductory Physics or Technology/Engineering)

Score in the Proficient or Advanced category on the remaining two high school state assessment tests

Have a combined MCAS score on these assessments that ranks in the top 25% in their school district.

The scholarship was never for full fees, not is that what I said. It used to be a 100% tuition voucher (2019-2020 value: $16,784), but it was reduced to its current level of $1714 (~10%) at some point several years ago.

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@swampyankee I hope your child comes across as less antagonistic than you do in the holistic process.

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1 other yes, the other still awaiting.

Of course, it’s not just “getting in”. As a parent serving multiple tuitions bills in parallel, the value component starts to outweigh “reputation”. This is why UMassA’s mission matters.

He has excellent opportunities, but that a victim of domestic violence CAN get another date does not negate the original offense. (I use this example with hyperbole, of course).

I simply think UMass Amherst has some objectives which conflict with the mission of supporting a meritocracy for students from MA, AND benefiting the citizens of MA, overall.

My son will be more than fine; I can assure.
He has several offers at top 40 USNWR Nationals/LASs, but other families who can not afford so many additional applications (hoping their high-achieving, in-state, students can earn a spot at UMassA) will be the real losers in the furure. Yes, there always less competitive in-state options but they seldom compare favorably to flagship, Amherst.

Let this thread be another wake-up call that public universities should not receive blind support from the masses, without answers to these issues raised.

Let me take one more peak is the mirror…

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Can’t holistic imply (to some degree) that ALL the highest stats kids simply CAN’T get in–because of physical enrollment constraints and/or that isn’t the distribution the college desires? That the college wants to have a “bell curve” of students in terms of stats and therefore appreciates that in the end, while they appreciate the value of high scores, they also appreciate the value and potential of students who didn’t achieve them?

I am interested to see when test-optional becomes the norm up here…

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@swampyankee
I’m sorry to hear of your son’s disappointing results from UMass Amherst. He certainly has stellar stats and it is remarkable that he did not get in. I understand it can be incredibly frustrating and it’s hard not to take it personally. For my own sanity, I try to remind myself that it is not personal. It does not mean there is something wrong with my kid, deficiencies or red flags in their app. Maybe there is, but MAYBE these schools just get far more qualified applicants than they can possibly admit.

As a 25-year MA resident, I do have some thoughts. I have no dog in this fight. My D19 was accepted to UMass Amherst last year (not CS), but chose to go elsewhere; and my D20 did not even apply to UMass Amherst this year (also not CS).

  1. Those Niche ratings you cited are not based on any official data. They are self-reported by students who use the Niche site. When I look at UMass Amherst / Computer Science, it’s based on only 160 students reporting, 75 IS and 85 OOS. (not clear about timeframe either) That’s really not a statistically credible number.

  2. UMass does publish actual admissions stats (https://www.umass.edu/oir/), but not to the level of detail that shows CS admits by IS vs. OOS. Overall, though, it looks like 75% of freshmen enrolled in 2019-20 are in state. I believe that compares favorably with many other states’ flagships. BUT it does look like the yield rate for OOS admits is much lower than for IS admits, so admitted students are roughly 50/50 IS/OOS, in order to yield that 75/25 enrollment.

  3. As I’m sure you understand, simply paying taxes does not entitle any student admission to any specific major in any specific state-funded school, especially not one of the most competitive majors in the most competitive state-funded school in MA. Our taxes go toward many state-funded universities, and I am quite confident that your son would be easily admitted to many of those schools.

  4. Re: holistic admissions. Students are more than numbers. Not all life experiences are created equally. Some kids overcome illness, some work to support their families, some make a difference in their communities, some have non-academic interests. Obviously, schools don’t want to accept students who can’t succeed, but when that kid has ONLY a 3.5 GPA and 1400 SAT, who’s to say they aren’t as capable of success as the 4.0/1570 kid who’s interests are purely academics? One is not “better than” the other.

I really think you would be better off focusing on the great schools where your son was admitted, rather than fixating on the one school where he was not. Please understand that I say that with kindness. This is a very exciting time for our kids and also a stressful time. It is so much more fun to celebrate the successes!

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