UMD CP or JHU?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Maryland - College Park
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I got off the waitlist for Johns Hopkins and I was planning on going to UMD. I have 8 days to decide and I’m 50/50 on where I should. I’m a physics major and i know UMD is great for physics.

Mostly my concerns about JHU are its reputation for a bad social life. I’m also afraid the rigor will make me extremely stressed out. Also, I really want to be involved in research as an undergrad and im concerned that the higher level of competition at Hopkins will make that more difficult for me than it would be at UMD. I love baltimore though.

On the other hand UMD is super fun, but the classes are much larger and its less competitive. I’m afraid that if I choose UMD I’m cheating myself of a greater academic challenge and an environment that would push me more. Like I’m concerned that if I choose UMD over JHU there is an opportunity cost of the critical thinking skills and study skills I could have had, had I gone to Hopkins.

I feel like my quality of life for the next 4 years would be worse at Hopkins, but there is also more to gain intellectually in the long run, or at least it seems like that.

On the other hand, at UMD I’m capable of getting a 4.0 if i try hard and there will be less competition for research. I also am in the Gemstones program. Whereas at Hopkins I’m afraid I might struggle a lot and get a really low GPA. I’m not really sure if grad schools will factor in that Hopkins is more difficult than UMD for admissions if I get a lower GPA there rather than a high one at UMD.

In terms of cost, UMD would be 17k and JHU would be probably around 45k for me. I havent worked out with my parents how much they are willing to cover for hopkins and how much i would have to take out in loans. If its over 50k of loans for the four years, I won’t go to JHU, but idk if >50k loans is even worth it.

I plan on going to grad school and I’m not really concerned with how this decision will affect my future income.

Any Hopkins or UMD student please share your experience with either school!!!

I’m sooooo unsure of where to go

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edit: not necessarily a 4.0 that’s expecting a lot, I just mean I could have a higher GPA at UMD relative to JHU

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What major or majors are you considering?

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@NavalTradition physics

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UMD’s actually ranked a bit above JHU in physics.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/physics-rankings

I’ve taken classes at UMD and taught at JHU. I personally preferred UMD. If Hopkins is better all-around in some people’s estimation, I doubt it’s $50k in debt better.

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Malcolm Gladwell recently wrote about what’s called “relative deprivation”–the tendency to compare your own status/abilities with the people close to you. Your self-image and confidence are often not reflective in your actual ability, but your ability compared to others.

For example, the economist Walter Adams found out that high school students who rated themselves above average in a moderely selective college-prep program were more likely to plan to go to college than the ones who rated themselves below average in a highly selective program. Another research shows that a top student from Fordham earns more income than a moderate student from Columbia after graduation. Columbia students compare themselves to other Columbia students–and if you end up at the bottom third, you are bound to feel stupid and less competent. All this is to say that it may be better to be a top student at a less competitive school, gain more aspiration and confidence and thus thrive more, than to go to a more competitive school and feel mediocre or even like a loser.

I have no idea how you know that Maryland’s physics classes are less competitive than JHU’s, but if it is true, the fact that Maryland’s classes are less competitive may precisely be the fact that you’ll end up smarter and more capable during school and after graduation.

However, relative deprivation may not be an entirely universal phenomenon, as Carol Dweck has done some research on skill-development on two types of people: the people who compare themselves to others and the people who exclusively focus on their own aptitude and effort, with the latter ending up improving their talents better. So I don’t know if you’re one of the people who are compelled to compare themselves with others.

But I have the feeling you may be underestimating UMD students. From what I’ve read, UMD graduates go to top physics grad schools every year, including MIT, Harvard, Cornell, Illinois, etc, etc. Also in the last seven years, six physics students from UMD won the Goldwater scholarship; two physics students from JHU did. (There is no list of winners beyond that.) You could also talk about the math department. UMD students have been among the top 10 at the William Lowell Putnam mathematical competition for five times; for JHU, one time. We’re not talking about English, which is undoubtedly more prestigious at JHU–we are talking about physics, and, if you will ever be involved in their department, mathematics. If you want to talk to English majors during college, JHU may be a better choice in that sense.

+I think you would know this, but UMD finished their construction of the Physical Sciences Complex last year, which even has Quantum Cafe…

p.s. I’m a transfer physics student who’ll most likely end up at UMD. If you choose to go there, I hope to see you there :slight_smile:

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@QuantumGuy7 Alll very good points. I think maybe my post gave off the impression that I think im too good for UMD and that its super easy, I totally don’t think that. I just assume that the classes will be less competitive relative to Hopkins based on the avg gpa/sat for hopkins compared to that of UMD.

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@NavalTradition Why did you prefer UMD to Hopkins? I feel that the students at UMD seem happier and more united even though its a large school, maybe its bcuz of sports or just general school spirit at umd

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Badically, Hopkins is a school where premeds set the tone of the whole place. I didn’t find a lot of imagination there. UMD was more freewheeling and diverse.

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You would have 2 nobel prize winners at JHU as full faculty and access to the applied physics laboratory as well - where as UMD has one and an adjunct. Additionally, I can name 6 students in my year that went to Harvard, MIT, Princeton from JHU for Physics Ph.D.s alone. Can UMD claim the same despite being much much larger? Several students I know in physics also won national Hertz, NSF, DOD fellowships for grad school in addition to winning top fellowships . At the undergrad level, I would question if UMD is “better” despite some citing US News grad school rankings on here.

Goldwaters are limited to 4 a year. How many has UMD won in aggregate in the last 7 years? hint: not as much as Hopkins. Same goes for the rhodes, gates, fulbright, and churchill scholars. Goldwaters are also school wide - it’s not an indictment if not all four students are physics or engineering. Hopkins undergrad is head and sholders above that relative to UMD on an average level – but that’s not a guarantee of you doing well at UMD however. I’ve known people who got into Caltech but went to UMD and did average (around a 3.5 in physics).

Hopkins students are significantly more qualified based on test score and GPAs across all majors relative to those of UMD - unless somehow the Premeds have vastly higher test scores to bring up the mean (doubtful when you look at percentage of SAT math and verbal above 700). I personally turned down banneker key scholar/gemstone/etc and know many others at Hopkins that did the same or also turned down very hefty scholarship offers from UMD. I can’t sit here and tell you a 45k premium is necessarily worth it to attend Hopkins, but i do know some that might have made the choice and they have not regretted it.

If you do come to Hopkins, you will get pushed as a result - but not necessarily at the cost of all social life. College is about balancing the two - a necessary skill at either institution. If you do research and do well, you’ll have your choice of grad schools and a variety of other career fields not necessarily open to those at UMD. You’ll also have some opportunities available to you such as selective investment banks, consulting companies, and other jobs that do not recruit at UMD but do at Hopkins.

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“I can name 6 students in my year that went to Harvard, MIT, Princeton from JHU for Physics Ph.D.s alone. Can UMD claim the same despite being much much larger?” Yes. While I don’t know what they chose to pursue at those schools the overall answer is yes. Just as many Maryland students did gain admission to those schools.

And really, Blah2009, if you want to blow smoke about JHU, be prepared to clear the mirrors and look at the facts.
The DOD Smart scholarships awarded to Maryland FAR outnumber those give to JHU…46 to Maryland compared to 8 at JHU. http://smart.asee.org/program_stats/school_directory.
Do I really need to go tit for tat on each award you tout JHU as better? I’m sure there might be a few awards where JHU has a higher number, but not many and definitely not all as you imply.

Jobs that recruit at Hopkins but that don’t at Maryland? Really? Again, get your facts straight before making bold statements that are wholly untrue. JHU doesn’t even appear on the list of top 25 universities for recruiters
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060

And this mentality, @zzz523 my friend, is exactly what you are up against at JHU. Certainly not all are this way, but many students with inflated egos that can’t even research facts correctly before making statements because they are so in love with themselves that they can’t see the forest through the trees.

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Oh and for the record read another citation that Maryland students outperform JHU students on awards. 15 Terps v only 11 JHU…and given that more JHU (54) students applied compared to Maryland (41) then it could be said Maryland students are better prepared/more competitive for awards…scroll down to bottom chart for these figures Top Producers of U.S. Fulbright Students by Type of Institution, 2013-14 - See more at: http://m.chronicle.com/article/Fulbright-Program-Introduces/142643/#sthash.hfmDswVd.dpuf

http://m.chronicle.com/article/Fulbright-Program-Introduces/142643/r

I’m sure I could go on and on but I think I’ve made my point…?

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Here is the link to check out results of undergrad surveys for post graduation plans - physics is under school of cmns-computer science mathematics natural science. I think u will be satisfied both in job placement and continuing education placement.
http://www.careercenter.umd.edu/wcidwami.cfm?school=Computer%2C+Mathematical%2C+and+Natural+Sciences&major=Physics&matriculationlevel=ALL&filter=Select

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Both are amazing schools! Go where you feel you will have a better lifestyle because you will be better motivated to do well academically and be a happier person! You can get a higher GPA at UMD and you won’t be so stressed because there is less competition and be overwhelmed. Grad schools look at your GPA not where you went to college so choose where you can succeed academically and grow into a happier, well rounded person! In my opinion, UMD is a great choice! I choose umd over umbc because of the lack of social life. I would barely have any fun things to do on campus and would have less well rounded friends, school spirit, and less of a great freshman college experience at umbc! Sometimes a better school like jhu is not worth the cost if you’re going to overwhelm with work and struggle to get a good GPA!

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I live in Baltimore and have very strong family connections to JHU. Obviously, JHU is an outstanding school, and let’s be clear - Hopkins applicants are in the same pool as MIT, Stanford, Duke and the Ivy League. UMD is an outstanding school in the sciences, but it a flagship state school. It is very difficult to compare the schools, especially culturally. This is by no means meant to detract from the merits of UMD (my daughter is a freshman there). UMD is fantastic and strong in so many ways. However, in terms of international brand recognition (and selectivity) there is no real comparison. (It is similar to comparing Northwestern or the University of Chicago to the University of Illinois).

Having said that, my brother offers an interesting scenario to consider: he has a BS in Physics from JHU and his PHD in physics from UMD. He chose Maryland for graduate school based on its reputation, faculty and the research breadth of the Physics department. As has been noted, UMD has an outstanding Physics department.

It is a cliche, but college is truly what you make of it (assuming you are attending a reasonably good school). However, if you are fortunate enough to get into JHU, I can see where that would be difficult to pass up. Just come to UMD for grad school.

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maryversity, you are so very very very far off base, i don’t even know where to begin.

It is an absolute fact there are employers that recruit at Hopkins and other elite privates that do not at Maryland.

McKinsey (where I work), Goldman Sachs Investment Banking (although goldman does interview at UMD for their less selective technology programs), BCG, do not recruit at University of Maryland at all. These are the creme de la creme of Finance and Consulting firms. The list goes on and on and on.

http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/your_career/mckinsey_on_campus/schools/mba/other_mba_schools

Please check your facts before you try to refute mine.

Fulbrights this year:

http://umdrightnow.umd.edu/news/twelve-umd-students-alumni-awarded-fulbright-grants

UMD = 13

http://hub.jhu.edu/2015/05/11/fulbright-scholars-2015

JHU = 13

let’s see who had more applicants, but then again fulbrights are MULTIPLE levels of prestige and selectivity LOWER compared to rhodes, truman, and churchill scholars (all of which UMD is lacking).

Churchill:

UMD = 2 over all time http://www.winstonchurchillfoundation.org/scholars.php?sort=I

JHU = 16 http://www.winstonchurchillfoundation.org/scholars.php?sort=I

Rhodes

UMD = 1 over all time

JHU = 18

http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/uploads/Rhodes%20Scholarships_Number%20of%20Winners%20by%20Institution_10_15_14.pdf

When it comes to prestigious nationally competitive fellowships, no UMD does not hold a candle.

Keep in mind, JHU does the above with a vastly smaller student body size.

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My son is a junior in the Gemstone program & chose Maryland over higher ranked schools, and he loves it at College Park. You’ll find extremely bright students there & a lot of opportunity. Good luck with your choice!

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@Blah2009 I know we are dealing with the limitations of message boards, but your tone comes across as holier than thou. Wouldn’t you expect the UMD section of this site to defend the school?

I know quite a bit about consultancy recruiting since I also work in the field. The firms that you cite recruit at the schools that you mention because their “hit” rate per interview is much higher. They can hit multiple birds with one stone so to speak since nearly everyone at those schools is a potential fit. I assure you that there are many students at UMD, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio St, Penn St and on and on who have just as much potential, but given the size of the school, the recruiting is messier, so to speak. I know that Accenture recruits at UMD and their operations / supply chain graduates are particularly sought after. Furthermore, there is new book out on how Google recruits. They would rather have an outstanding graduate from a large flagship state school than someone from the Ivy League. That says a lot.

It is certainly fine to laud JHU, but is uncharitable to take pot shots at Maryland while doing so.

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More on what Google looks for below…very enlightening.

http://qz.com/180247/why-google-doesnt-care-about-hiring-top-college-graduates/

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David, I do concur my tone could be a bit better, but that was in relation to shots taken on JHU.

Deloitte and Accenture recruit at state schools because their work force is huge. They are also far less selective as their have minimum gpa requirements of around a 3.2 and recruit at all kinds of schools around the country. Accenture and Deloitte are also delivery and operations oriented - their strategy work force is lacking relative to the top strategy firms from a revenue and market share perspective. They are not small and selective like McKinsey, Bain, BCG which do in fact recruit at more selective state schools like Michigan, Berkeley, UVa. They (McKinsey, Bain, BCG) don’t come to Maryland because the former schools have more of a proven track record with their graduates - not because of the interview hit rate. They could easily come to Maryland and only interview the top 30 kids with a minimum 3.8 GPA cutoff like they do at michigan, uva, berkeley, but they don’t because UMD does not have the cache in the elite C-suite consulting or high return finance fields that the other elite private schools or small subgroup of publics do coupled with the historic non-success rate of limited UMD grads in this field.

I think UMD is a fine school - certainly one of the top schools out there. I can’t say definitively say the education imparted by Hopkins is necessarily better than that of UMD - especially with specialized programs like gemstone and honors. Nor can I definitively say the premium 40k+ the OP might pay may be justified for Hopkins (which I’ve stated previously). I can only state there are certain opportunities that will be open to the OP should he choose Hopkins and not UMD.

Additionally, Google might prefer state state schools because the founders went to Maryland and Michigan (despite going to Stanford for grad), respectively for undergrad. I’m quite familiar with google’s recruiting as well as I have many many friends from my grad school days at Stanford who work there. They value computer science program excellence over general prestige. Why would they hire a Yale CS grad or any other ivy grad (save maybe cornell)over a Berkeley CS grad? Berkeley is far closer and offers a more proven track record for computer science via their faculty and graduates.

UMD certainly has an admirable computer science program, but I think you might be confounding google’s rationale .