I live in NYC so traveling to Brown is definitely a lot cheaper and easier. I received a lot of aid from both schools, but UMich is a few thousands more expensive than Brown.
My main interest is computer science followed by statistics, but to be honest, I don’t 100% know what I want to be in the future. How does where I receive a degree in CS or Statistics affect my future career?
Brown is excellent in CS, and it is an excellent university overall…certainly as good as Michigan. If Brown is cheaper, I say go there. You will have similar opportunities both as a student, and when you graduate.
@Alexandre is right about opportunities: recruiting and grad school placement opportunities should be similar for both schools. As for actual quality of CS education, I have to give the edge to Michigan (I am a CS major, and have looked at Brown’s curriculum). Simply put, Michigan dives deeper into CS and has more upper level electives to choose from, if I understand correctly.
I would pay attention to fit. Brown and Michigan are VERY different schools with markedly different cultures.
Have you visited (if financially feasible)?
How important is cost for you?
I will be visiting Brown in few weeks, but I won’t be able to visit UMich due to the price of the airplane ticket.
Since both schools gave me a lot of financial aid, the cost to attend either schools isn’t a BIG factor.
If cost is not a concern, go with your gut. You will get to see Brown but not Michigan. Michigan is obviously larger, and as yikesyikesyikes pointed out, likely has a larger faculty and more courses on offer. While both universities are noted for their liberal student bodies, intellectual vibe and artsy scene, Michigan has an extra dimension; rabid sports fans and a more active social scene. If those matter to you, Michigan is a better fit, otherwise, I do not think it makes a difference either way.
Michigan is ranked significantly higher than Brown for both CS and Statistics. A lot of it depends what you want to do, and CS and Stats can be very intertwined. At Michigan you can study statistics and actuarial sciences through LS&A and even study Geostatistics through the SNRE and engineering. There are a ton of jobs for statistical developers and “R” consultants too. There are a number of cutting edge statistical research companies in Ann Arbor working in health care and epidemiology. I took a class from one of the founders (an adjunct UM prof) and it is pretty amazing to be taught by someone who invented a number of statistical tests and developed software to both incorporate time and suspend assumptions of independence. It’s a lot different working with real-world data visualization than dry theoretical proofs.
Whatever your choice, you picked a great area to study! You can make a lot of positive contributions.
https://www.brown.edu/campus-life/support/careerlab/post_grad_data/concentration/COMP
if you’re aiming for Google, then Brown beats Michigan. Keep in mind that Brown’s CS graduating class much…much smaller than Michigan’s CS graduating by a large order of magnitude.
I think Michigan might do better with Amazon and Microsoft. But those companies seen are as less favorable than Google among CS students and Software Developers
betoh, Larry Page, the co-founder of Google, is a Michigan alum. Google currently has 400 employees in Ann Arbor and is opening a large corporate office in Ann Arbor. Page is the CEO of Alphabet, the parent company of Google and several other software companies. It is doubtful that Google favors Brown grads to Michigan grads.
Have you been to Google’s Ann Arbor office? OP is asking about Computer Science. The Ann Arbor office is primarily marketing and biz development. Very… Very few software developers work there. Even that article you posted says the AA office is not devoted to software development. Every Michigan CS grad who works at Google is at Mountain View not AA. Compare Browns numbers to the UMich Engineering Annual report, Brown beats Michigan in proportions
I have seen the Ann Arbor office and I am well aware of its function. I never said CS majors are placed in the AA office, I was just pointing our the obvious; the connection between Page, Google and Michigan is significant.
Brown’s placement in Google is obviously impressive, but 2015 was an outlier. Most other years, roughly 5-10 Brown CS graduates were placed at Google. Michigan has placed more at Google than Brown each year. It is safe to say that many more were offered positions at Google but chose other tech giants like Apple, Cisco, Microsoft etc…, where Michigan places far, far more graduates than Brown.
So here is a comparison of their respective placements in some of the top Tech companies:
2015:
Amazon: Michigan 49, Brown 0
Apple: Michigan 33, Brown 0
Cisco: Michigan 7, Brown 0
Facebook: Michigan 12, Brown 2
Google: Michigan 36, Brown 23
Intel: Michigan 23, Brown 0
Microsoft: Michigan 41, Brown 9
Oracle: Michigan 11, Brown 0
2014:
Amazon: Michigan 24, Brown 2
Apple: Michigan 12, Brown 1
Cisco: Michigan ?, Brown 0
Facebook: Michigan 12, Brown 4
Google: Michigan 25, Brown 13
Intel: Michigan 19, Brown 0
Microsoft: Michigan 43, Brown 2
Oracle: Michigan?, Brown 0
2013:
Amazon: Michigan 16, Brown 2
Apple: Michigan 6, Brown 0
Cisco: Michigan 11, Brown 0
Facebook: Michigan 8, Brown 6
Google: Michigan 7, Brown 5
Intel: Michigan ?, Brown 0
Microsoft: Michigan 20, Brown 0
Oracle: Michigan?, Brown 0
2012:
Amazon: Michigan 18, Brown 2
Apple: Michigan ?, Brown 2
Cisco: Michigan 14, Brown 0
Facebook: Michigan ?, Brown 0
Google: Michigan 11, Brown 4
Intel: Michigan 15, Brown 0
Microsoft: Michigan 32, Brown 3
Oracle: Michigan?, Brown 0
TOTAL (2012-2015)
Amazon: Michigan 108, Brown 6
Apple: Michigan 51+, Brown 3
Cisco: Michigan 32+, Brown 0
Facebook: Michigan 32+, Brown 12
Google: Michigan 79, Brown 41
Intel: Michigan 57+, Brown 0
Microsoft: Michigan 136, Brown 14
Oracle: Michigan 11+, Brown 0
I do not think it is clear that Google recruits more at Brown. In terms of absolute numbers, Google hires twice as many Michigan graduates than Brown graduates. However, it should be noted that in the case of Michigan, Google is competing with other major tech companies. That does not seem to be the case at Brown.
Lots of flawed reasoning and conclusions going on. I will clarify your post for @1W2HZ3 so that he/she doesn’t make a decision based on misrepresented facts.
1. I’ve said this again and again, but Brown’s graduating class size is extremely tiny compared to Michigan’s enormous size. So of course, Michigan has some bigger numbers. Not surprised there
2. Here you are making an unfair comparison of Michigan’s ENTIRE engineering employment numbers vs only Brown’s Computer Science department. This is apples to oranges. For example Apple hires MechE for Product Design and Reliability Engineer roles.
3. Your numbers don’t include Applied Math - Computer Science, Computer Science - Economics, Mathematics -Computer Science. Brown counts these separately outside of Computer Science. You can tell based on specific the Year/Title/Company combinations. For example, the 2015 Software Engineer@MongoDB in ‘Math-Computer Science’ is not included in the 2015 report for ‘Mathematics’ or ‘Computer Science’. This is true for other instances too.
4.
the Ann Arbor office has little relevance in this thread since OP is talking about their CS program. It’s not even worth mentioning. That’s like saying Briarwood Mall has an Apple Store which sells Macbooks Airs. Michigan CS grads don’t work at Briarwood Mall.
5.
This isn’t completely true. Cisco and Microsoft are considered 2nd tier compared to Apple and Google. The vast majority of top CS students and even seasoned Software Developers will choose Apple/Google over Microsoft and Cisco. Only the few will give up Apple/Google for Microsoft. The logic is quite simple. Microsoft uses .NET tech stack which is considered archaic, slow, and has limited compared to the many newer technologies. .NET is filled with bad practices and poor paradigms. Their codebases are bloated and today their many developers have barely learned the fundamentals of computer science due to that environment(except Bill Gates + Paul Allen of course). Microsoft’s stack was built on as Business primary and technology-secondary. The most innovative and agile companies use open source code (eg. Android which is owned by Google). The open-source/agile community developed their stack as technology-primary and business-secondary. Even though Apple is locked down, it is still a Unix environment. Plus the last 10 years, Apple has beat Microsoft in product design (although, i can’t say this is true for the last 3 months). Even though Microsoft’s code went public about 1 week ago, it could take a decade before the top 5% of software developers would reasonably and objectively consider Microsoft’s technology is better than Google or Apple.
Not sure why you mention Cisco, Intel though since the figures you include are mostly Michigan’s mechanical, chemical, electrical, computer engineering students, so most aren’t CS. Cisco and Intel are a hardware-first company and have less openings for software and CS students. Intel takes in quite a few CS interns/coops but they convert less significantly into full-time hires compared to electrical/computer/mechanical/chemical/engineering students. That would be a good argument if OP had an interest in hardware because Brown doesn’t really have those traditional engineering disciplines.
**6. **
Michigan puts up better numbers for Amazon, but Amazon is among the lesser desireable big tech companies. They have lowest standards for hiring compared to the rigors or Apple, Google, Twitter, Quora, etc…
Amazon has a toxic work environment and higher turnover rates compared to the rest. Amazon is 3rd tier.
**7. **
That fact that you include Oracle actually hurts your argument. You should’ve excluded them to make your numbers look stronger. When Oracle comes for campus recruiting, they aren’t looking for Devs, they instead only hire Tech Consultants who work as Dev contractors for other companies except they get paid less, travel more (its not a vacation, nor glamorous), their skill-growth and career trajectory is limited, and its more stressful (bureaucratically). People become Tech Consultants if they can’t get a real dev role.
**8. **
Brown’s placement in Google is obviously impressive, but 2015 was an outlier.
This is extremely dismissive to call their 2015 year an outlier. Outliers don’t work like that. You don’t get into Google by accident.
**9. **
But the numbers don’t really show that Michigan is a clear feeder into Google over Brown.
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10.!!!
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Worst of all. Your Michigan years are WRONG for EVERY ONE of them of them. In 2015 Michigan had 36 Googlers and 33 for Apple? No that’s for the Class of 2016, not class of 2015. This is clearly stated in the report.
You’ve been comparing Michigan’s Class of 2016 vs Brown Class of 2015,
and Michigan’s Class of 2015 vs Brown Class of 2014
and so on…
Michigan does better with Facebook and Apple, I will give you that.
Since I am a CSE alumni at Michigan, I can give OP a quick tour of my Engenius account and the other companies that actively, especially where he/she can see the plethora of events and opportunities for recruiting.