UMich - CSP - What is this?

Parents Forum
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<p>My son's UMich acceptance letter says" "to give you the greatest opportunity for success at the University, we have also selected you to be a participant in the Comprehensive Studies Program (CSP)..."</p>

<p>What is CSP? It sounds like some sort of extra enrichment program for students who may be especially challenged by the workload. The funny thing (not really funny) is that the CSP brochure (included in his package) is the only place I find pictures of students of color - except one other page in the larger "Learning Community" brochure - and that page is about the CSP. </p>

<p>Are all students of color placed in one of these programs?</p>

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<p>Wow, I just looked that up--that sure sounds like a support program for at-risk students...did they even look at your son's accomplishments, or just go by his race?</p>

<p>I am officially embarrassed by my alma mater.</p>

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<p>Garland...here is the quote from the CSP page of the large brochure, as quoted from a student:</p>

<p>"The greatest knowledge you will gain is simply living and interacting daily with your peers of different ethnic backgrounds"</p>

<p>It sounds like a race thing - though is stated "different ethnic backgrounds" - I don't get it. In any event, it doesn't sound good! If kids are academically challenged, that's one hting. But, all of this focus on ethnicity tells me that there's more to it.</p>

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<p>The Comprehensive Studies program is sort of an extra support net of advising and some other activities which promote getting the most out of college academically. Additionally, I think it can end up being sort of a smaller, niche place in the larger University. </p>

<p>It's open to ALL students -- any who are interested in it can sign up.</p>

<p>However, as I understand it they promote it specially to some students. I thought it was particularly advised for students who might find a college workload a big adjustment, but it's possible they (also) specially encourage underrepresented minorities to join. Not because of an expectation that they can't hack it, but because it's ended up being a really great support system, and they know that the program addresses some of the problems of connectedness and retention that students of color have been frustrated with in the past.</p>

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<p>thanks howdoen. My son wasn't given the option of joining. The letter said that he was GOING to be placed into the program. The option would have been a nice offer.</p>

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<p>His option is not to go to UM. They might know a little more about student success and failure at UM than you.</p>

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<p>True Barrons. If talented a URM can't get through UM without special programs and residential situations, then the school obviously has issues. I wish it wasn't the case, as they do have a fine law school reputation and I would have suggested that he consider them later on.</p>

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<p>Momsdream, as I said above, I'm chagrined by this action by Michigan. It's very condescending of them, Barrons, to assume a young man with his abilities and accomplishments will need extra help just because of his race.</p>

<p>M: Why don't you wr ite them and tell them how it makes you feel about them? Their grad schools are phenomenal, and maybe they need to know what reaction they're soliciting by this action.</p>

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<p>Garland, I've decided to pursue this further because I've heard too many wonderful things about UMich - including from my own father, an attorney who praises their law school. I don't want to judge them by this before understanding the full scope of the situation. Large schools, such a UM, seem to have a greater need to rush to group kids by general rule, as opposed to individual accomplishments and backgrounds. Putting my son into an "ethnic" residential sitatuaion would have been a shock given that ALL of his friends are white, with the exception of his GF..and all of her friend are white. UM needs to understand that there are URMs that come out of such environments...and such kids have won't have "adjustment" issues. This is why the choice would have been a good idea. He would have chosen not to have the support for any adjustment issues. But, if UM's experience has been that most URMs don't succeed in their environment, I guess I can't blame them for developing the best plan they could think of. My message is that it's not a "one size fits all" answer. </p>

<p>Perhaps if he makes it through Penn, they'll consider him for grad school without special programs (being sarcastic, of course).</p>

<p>I still regard UM very highly and haven't shared any of this with my S!! I don't think he read the letter carefuly enough to have picked it up.</p>

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<p>I think there is more than one way to look at it.</p>

<p>Let's keep in mind that NATIONALLY, URM graduation rates and retention rates lag behind those of non-URM students on the same campus. That appears to be true even at campuses that don't have affirmative action programs. I don't know what all the reasons are, although there are plenty that have nothing to do with ability or intelligence.</p>

<p>Is that a problem? Yes. It is a U-M problem alone? I don't believe so.</p>

<p>Research has also shown, NATIONALLY, that students who are more integrated and "plugged in" and involved on campus are happier and succeed at higher rates and report getting more out of their educational experiences.</p>

<p>Any conscientious institution is going to want to address retention problems. If you have a group of students who seem to be more at-risk than others, then it makes sense to target some efforts at them. Especially if, as an institution, you've decided that such students are important for the learning of the entire student body. Those at-risk (and institutionally important) groups may be URMs, they may be first-general college students, they may be women in science, etc. Efforts might involve creating some special programs that faciliate feeling connected and integrated, or might involve making students aware of existing programs, issuing a special invitation, etc. And as a footnote, yes, ideally they'd care about EVERY student and make a place in these programs for every student, but they may not have the resources to do that. And the interest may not be there (not every kid wants to enroll). </p>

<p>As I understand it, U-M also heavily promotes the UROP (undergraduate research opportunity program) to underrepresented minorites. It's a fabulous program that hooks undergrads up with faculty to work on their research. They don't do that because they pity minorities or feel condescending towards them. They do it because it's a good program, and they want to be sure that any URM student with an interest does it and gets signed up. It is likely to be a good experience for them, and as an added bonus it might reduce the chances that the student will drop out or transfer. I call that a win-win.</p>

<p>I understand why you'd have questions about them FORCING your son to enter the CSP, and I understand concerns about whether they are pigeonholing him solely due to skin color. But before you write off U-M, or feel too offended, or lay nationally-observed retention problems at U-M's doorstep, it's worth getting more information. It sounds like you've resolved to do that, and I am glad.</p>

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<p>I would agree with not laying nationally-known retention problems at Michigan's doorstep. I know that recruiting and maintaining a diverse class is very important to them, which can be seen by their taking their cases all the way to the Supreme Court, and I was happy to see them do so.</p>

<p>HOWEVER, there has to be a more accurate and less stigmatizing way to classify a student as a retention risk than solely by the color of his skin. Momsdream's son has stellar SATs, grades, and ECs, has excelled in a rigorous private school, has shown great inititiatve in independent projects, and oh, incidentally, is going to Penn. If Michigan still had qualms, they simply needed to place him in Honors, which is a program he obviously qualifies for and would give him personal attention. They didn't need to put him in something which questions his ability to get by on his own.</p>

<p>I am a huge fan of Michigan, but I think this is offputting and condescending, and it would be good for them to know that it appears that way to people like Momsdream, so that they don't lose good students over it.</p>

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<p>Momsdream, this is kind of like what I remember reading about last summer. At certain schools with affinity housing, if a URM of the particular race ever listed that ethnicity's affinity housing, even as a last choice, they seemed to always get it - based on anecdotes of students advising URM freshmenl. I'm all for making students feel welcome, supported, a part of the community, I'm not sure affinity housing is such a great idea, especially when placement is made by assumption.</p>

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<p>I don't know what the criterion are to be placed in this program, and I certainly hope being URM does not automatically put you in there. The combination of gpa and URM might well be the clue. If he is at a rigorous school with difficult courses, his UM gpa might not be in their comfort zone. I know that though they do recognized better than some state schools, especially their size, the differences in curriculum, they are still somewhat bound by gpa rules. The average gpa at Michigan is very high, much higher than the top 20%, maybe the top 10% of my Son's class if you converted their transcripts into a Michigan gpa.</p>

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<p>Well, they maintain since they went to the new individualized admissions system last year that they do not have any gpa or SAT rules, though possibly that's not actually true.</p>

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<p>I don't think that is true. S is having some gpa issues with them, or rather would have if he were seriously considering the school. He is probably going to get rejected academically with this MidYear report. And I really do not blame the university for the gpa concern as that is probably the single most important indicator of success in college.</p>

<p>Also I understand a number of colleges have programs for URMs. CMU has Diversity Weekends, I know. I did not think that they were mandatory, but thinking about it, I have to say, that they may well be useful. Pittsburg, for instance, may be a shocker for some URMs, as I would imagine some southern cities might be as well, and there may be some issues that students of color need to be apprised. Local attitudes, issues, problems. Particularly schools that have very, very few URMs. I would not have thought Michigan would be such a school, however. </p>

<p>In my book, though, ALL kids with questionable gpas or test scores, regardless of race or ethnic group should be required to go through some sort of course as a conditon of entering, but any cultural advisement time should be optional. There are many people of color who are familiar with living in an all white type area, and know what the situation is, and a one hour discussion group could really cover the particulars. It is insulting to arbitrarily insist on a certain group of people attending a special adjustment course.</p>

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<p>I am fairly sure that my older son got that with his acceptance, and there was every evidence that the program is offered willy-nilly to black students.</p>

<p>He had 1410 SAT I, 700 average SAT II, plus National Merit Commended and the IB program. S's unweighted average was around a 2.9, which was a little low for Mich., but his scores were in the top 25% for the university and based on their point system, he would have gotten in without the racial tip.</p>

<p>S got into one other top 25 school and one top 50 school and neither offered him any remediation.</p>

<p>The whole family was insulted.</p>

<p>Add to all of this, Michigan sent him an application for some kind of non race related special merit aid that was supposed to be based on merit only, not need. However, they also sent us a FAFSA with it. We asked if the FAFSA was necessary since the scholarship was supposed to be merit only. They said the FAFSA wasn't necessary, but then denied S a scholarship. When S asked why, the person in financial aid said that it was due to lack of financial need.</p>

<p>Up to all of that, Mich had been his first choice school. He went elsewhere.</p>

<p>A friend of mine who is a black Mich. alum says she has heard lots of things about how Michigan treats black students, particularly males, inappropriately including trying to funnel them into remedial programs they don't need.</p>

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<p>It's not fair to publically debate this without hearing what UMich has to say:
I called them and asked the admissions counselor what this was about. He said there was something in the application that made them feel that this would be helpful - but said that he wouldn't tell what it was because there are so many applicants and the specific reason isn't documented anywhere. He said that the admission criteria is so strict that everyone who gets in is an extremely high achiever, but that something in the app points to this as a benefit, and that many kids who are not in the program wish they were. I asked him about the URM issue (the guy I was talking to was black) and he said absolutely not - that he was never part of the program, even though he's black. Again, he said it's a nice program, giving more individual attention and support. </p>

<p>Cangel, he didn't select any affinity housing programs. Actually, he's against such programs and was surprised to learn that Penn offers them when he was reading the housing info. I had to put his fears to rest and assure him that he didn't HAVE to live in the African American dorm, which is what he thought when he first read about it and came running into my room with panic on his face (it was priceless). </p>

<p>I agree with jamimom, this is probably a GPA issue, which is what I thought last night when we had the thread about grade inflation at so many schools. UMich probbaly doesn't have time to take a deep dive into the profiles of every high school and know what each grade really means. Thus, they have to make blanket assumptions, which are probably right the majority of the time. </p>

<p>I would bet that someone with a kid at a top prep who has a 3.4 average could appeal the CSP program, if desired, and make a case for avoiding it. Just because UMich doesn't have time to evaluate each applicant holistically doesn't mean that they won't give a student the ok to skip the program if the student can demonstrate that their school is one in which Bs are considered the mark of excellence. Surely, they would be flexible....I believe. On the other hand, maybe the program is beneficial, as some have mentioned. </p>

<p>What would concern me is that a student coming in from a top prep with a lower GPA from that school might be at a disadvantage when palced into a learnig pool with lower GPA kids from schools with grade inflation, which is most of them. Thus, most likely, the prep school kids will be palced in a program that is below their achievement level. Given that, unless there is support for an appeal process, it might be best for prep school kids with rigorous grading systems to avoid these large colleges altogether. </p>

<p>I'm satisfied with their explanation and just suggest that students appeal it if they're in the position of being affected by the grade inflation problem, as I would hate to see any students who have excelled in rigorous high schools get pushed into a situation where they might waste time in something unnecessary. One size never fits all! </p>

<p>Perhaps UMich can add pics of people of color to other parts of their brochure to avoid such confusion in the future;)</p>

<p>Garland, go put your colors on.....you've got good reason to be proud :)</p>

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<p>Jamimom, though my question is not on topic of the thread, you mentioned that UMich might not take your son based on his mid year grade report. UMich, according to my daughter and she looked, does not require a mid year grade report. This happens to be the day our report cards come out and I had asked her to give her GC all the mid year grade report forms so they can be sent ASAP to her schools. It turned out that not every school seemed to have these and that was the case with UMich. (as an aside, she then got on my case for getting on HER case all semester to make sure she keeps grades up because at her first choice schools, grades matter and there are midyear grade reports and now she is like, right Mom, the two schools where grades matter most on my list, don't require midyear grade reports). So, I am curious how come UMich has one for your son? Do I have it right that that school does not ask for a mid year grade report?
Susan</p>

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<p>Momsdream, and Northstarmom, I was at UMich when my son auditioned there and did have a word with admissions. I don't know what the situation was when your son applied there, NSM, but very, very few kids are accepted with below a 3.0. The average gpa is over a 3.7. My son would have been flushed as an academic admit, but they give music kids some leeway in their academic review. If your gpa is at a certain point, they do get antsy, but I don't know if non URMs are offered a program for remediation. I know that NYU is also very picky about gpas, and they do not give many points for rigor of school. Only 2% of the accepted kids have under a 3.0.</p>

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<p>"Well, they maintain since they went to the new individualized admissions system last year that they do not have any gpa or SAT rules, though possibly that's not actually true."</p>

<p>As far as I can tell, that's true. As far as admissions goes. But it's probable that independent of the admit decision, they might earmark certain apps (or GPA levels) for things like honors, scholarships, and programs like the CSP. Whether there are hard-and-fast rules, or looser criteria, who knows?</p>