UMich Engineering School's Placement in Business

[goldenboy8784]

<p>

@Alexandre

They would rather concentrate on small programs within larger universities (i.e., Cornell’s AEM, Wharton, Ross, Northwestern’s MMSS etc…) than on the whole university. Harvard, Princeton, Stanford and perhaps Yale are the only exceptions.

This is simply not true. Those programs are a good place for consulting firms/i-banks to tap talent since they represent the most elite crop of students in good universities but they recruit pretty hard at the general student bodies of all Ivies plus Northwestern, Duke, Chicago and MIT as well. Admittedly, some schools for whatever reason have a stronger alumni network in these fields than others despite a similar academic reputation (Duke over Chicago, Dartmouth over Brown, etc.).</p>

<p>Let me compare Penn Engineering to Michigan’s Ross to give you an idea of what I’m talking about.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/SEAS_2011cp.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/SEAS_2011cp.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentData2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentData2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Penn SEAS Class Size: 358
Ross Class Size: 356</p>

<p>Boston Consulting Group
Penn: 3
Ross: 4</p>

<p>Bain & Co.
Penn: 3
Ross: 4</p>

<p>McKinsey & Co.
Penn: 3
Ross: 3</p>

<p>Booz & Co.
Penn: 2
Ross: 0</p>

<p>Deloitte
Penn: 5
Ross: 5</p>

<p>UBS
Penn: 8
Ross: 3</p>

<p>Barclays
Penn SEAS: 5
Ross: 3</p>

<p>Goldman Sachs
Penn SEAS: 6
Ross: 3</p>

<p>Citigroup
Penn SEAS: 5
Ross: 13</p>

<p>Credit Suisse
Penn SEAS: 5
Ross: 5</p>

<p>The Blackstone Group
Penn SEAS: 3
Ross: 0</p>

<p>JP Morgan
Penn SEAS: 2
Ross: 10</p>

<p>Morgan Stanley
Penn SEAS: 1
Ross: 8</p>

<p>Deutsche Bank
Penn SEAS: 0
Ross: 5</p>

<p>BAML
Penn SEAS: 4
Ross: 1</p>

<p>Total
Penn SEAS: 55
Ross: 67</p>

<p>Considering the fact that Ross is pretty much where all the banking/consulting recruitment at Michigan takes place and Penn SEAS plays second fiddle to Wharton and arguably CAS in this regard, Ross’s advantage over Penn Engineering in finance/consulting is essentially negligible.</p>

<p>The same analysis would apply to Dartmouth, Duke, Northwestern and Columbia except the scale would be tilted firmly in favor of these schools since they don’t have an undergraduate business school like Wharton sucking up all of the recruiters’ attention.</p>

<p>

@Alexandre

Those firms obviously recruit the general student population at all elite universities, but the numbers placed as opposed to the number of applicants is very discouraging.

Nope, most students at these general universities will be headed to law school, med school and graduate school as well as pursuing other endeavors. There might be about 300-350 kids interested in total at places like Dartmouth and Duke which is similar to Ross.</p>

[Alexandre]

<p>goldenboy, I wonder how many of those 55 Engineering students at Penn are part of the Jerome Fisher program and benefited from their affiliation to Wharton. One quick look shows that 31 of those 55 are part of the Jerome Fisher program. </p>

<p>“There might be about 300-350 kids interested in total at places like Dartmouth and Duke which is similar to Ross.”</p>

<p>Are you honestly suggesting that only 20% of Duke students are interested in careers in consulting or finance? I would be shocked if it were lower than 35%. </p>

<p>I stand by my original statement. With the exception of HPS and perhaps MIT, Yale and Dartmouth, the number of students at most elite universities (including Duke and non-Wharton Penn) who secure jobs at major Consulting firms and IBanks vs the number of students who see such jobs is discouraging.</p>

[NDIrishFan]

<p>thank you so much for ur excellent responses! i wish like hell I could apply for Ross, but to be honest, I don’t know how confident I am in the future of the American economy and I don’t wanna be out of luck holding just a finance degree regardless of the prestige of the school it comes from…at least i know in a jam I could always get an engineering industry job if i get the engineering degree…i guess i will just have to get an MBA a few years after undergrad</p>

[tetrahedr0n]

<p>

I don’t know how confident I am in the future of the American economy

</p>

<p>

at least i know in a jam I could always get an engineering industry job if i get the engineering degree

</p>

<p>These are contradictory positions. If the American economy does poorly in the future, engineering jobs will be dramatically affected. </p>

<p>Not to mention, it’s nowhere near as simple getting an industry job as you might think. You’ll be competing for those jobs with some very talented people.</p>

[nomadba3]

<p>as others have said, take a look at the EGL program. if you cannot hold a 3.4 in engineering your chances of getting the 3.9 necessary to be competitive for i-banking jobs in ross will be fairly low also. check the link i post for placement of EGL grads after college, and you’ll see that it is actually very common for people to get consulting jobs.</p>

<p>[Placement</a> Statistics | Michigan Engineering](<a href=“http://www.engin.umich.edu/egl/careers/index.html]Placement”>http://www.engin.umich.edu/egl/careers/index.html)</p>

[NDIrishFan]

<p>@ tetrahedron…i dont see how those comments are contradictory…in this major downturn in the economy, every finance/marketing/business major i see coming out of school cant get a job…however almost everyone i know who majored in business who did halfway decent was able to secure a job</p>

[NDIrishFan]

<p>@nomadba3…that program does look really interesting and solid for consulting…i just worry about the foreign language requirement…to be honest im terrible in foreign language and was hoping to get thru college without taking it…if anyone is knowledgeable about the program…wat exactly is the foreign language requirement the site kind of confused me</p>

[nomadba3]

<p>the foreign language requirement is four semesters. this means 131,132,231, and 232 of whatever language. however, there is a placement test so you likely won’t have to do all this. i stopped taking spanish after my sophomore year in high school and still placed out completely. i’m pretty sure you have to do the foreign language requirement if you end up in ross, too.</p>

[NDIrishFan]

<p>Wow you tested out completely from two years Spanish in high school? Wat level of knowledge is needed? Conjugation??</p>

[nomadba3]

<p>conjugation, basic knowledge of vocabulary and tenses. spanish isn’t all too hard to piece together so as long as you make an attempt you should get out of at least a few semesters, assuming that’s what language you took/are taking in high school</p>

[NDIrishFan]

<p>yeah…i took up to spanish 3 in my HS but to be honest i was never really any good at it…and although i got decent grades i didnt feel like i got too much out of it…thats why im not loving this foreign language requirement for the egl program but i guess it is what it is</p>