UMich Question (CS)...

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
1

Hey CC, I’ll make this “brief” (jk this is kinda long).

To give a bit of background, I’ve applied to a selection of colleges after extensive research, and I have the statistics to be in the acceptable range. This is NOT a chance thread, as I feel that I have put the best in my applications and am not really interested in “chancing” now (or ever). I am asking these questions to get an idea of any other CS colleges I should look out for.

I have already been accepted to UMich LSA via EA.

As a side note: Alexandre, you have been one of the most useful posters on an online blog I have ever seen, and I am very thankful for your advice that you dole out (selflessly) on a daily basis. I would greatly appreciate your advice on this thread

I have 2 questions:

  1. I will probably major in Computer Science/Engineering. Which colleges can (possibly) offer a better CS/CE educational experience than UMich?

  2. While not all-important, starting salary is a part of my college choice. Which colleges have a greater (BS) CS starting salary than UMich’s CS program? What colleges may have a more active CS recruiting scene than UMich?

I am a very social person, and I know UMich is a great fit for me. I’ve applied to reach schools, but something about the mix of students, campus, and university as a whole excited me beyond words. Frankly, I wasn’t really expecting an early decision from UMich as I applied in December, but they said I qualified for EA and still gave me a decision in mid-December.

I just want to make sure that if I commit to UMich, I am making the right decision for my future. Thanks in advance for your advice!

2
  1. Really hard to say which schools will offer you a better education. There are probably a dozen schools which have higher prestige in the field. You probably already know which schools those are. Whether those schools actually offer a better education is a different matter, and one that is hard to measure even if we had to resources to do so. Some professors are better at teaching than others. Some students are better at learning from professor X, and others professor Y. This question can't be easily and reliably answered.
  2. Michigan is at a level where the school won't be limiting you if your goal is employment after a bachelors degree. There's probably about a dozen and a half schools where no matter how good you are, your employment prospects out of undergrad will be the same. Whatever firm you name, if they recruit nationally they'll recruit in Michigan. That said, it may be easier for you to interview more widely if you went to school in Silicon Valley, so in that respect, Berkeley and Stanford probably have an edge.
3

Thanks for the response! I’ve seen you around the UMich CC boards before, you’re typically pretty helpful haha.

You mention UCB and Stanford (both schools I’ve applied to), and that’s why I’m not committing to UMich just yet.

Other than MIT, Stanford, UCB, CMU (all schools I’ve applied to), in your opinion Vladen, is there any school I should hold in a equivalent/higher position than UMich if I get in, as in greater in prestige for CS/CE, etc.?

Realistically, I really care about how I fit in UMich over CS prestige, but I do want to keep my options open.

Vladen, you’ve probably attended/know people at UMich, so what would you say about the future of the CS dept. there? How hard has it been for recent graduates to get jobs? I’ve researched via the ECRC about CS and it’s a very impressive track record, but I just want a second, experienced opinion.

My brother went to UCB and is VERY well connected in Silicon Valley (part of an acquired a startup company, etc), but I’m actually NOT sure if I want to end up there 100%, I’d like to have flexibility to work in the NE or Midwest as well.

I am VERY interested in startups, and while this would lead most to go West, I also know that Ann Arbor has a pretty vibrant Venture Capital and startup scene, normally in the top 10 in the nation for funding amount, so is UMich still a good choice for CS entrepreneurship?

Thanks in advance, everyone.

4

There’s some more you should hold as at least as prestigious. UIUC, Harvard, Georgia Tech, Wisconsin, a few others.

CS recruiting is great. Everyone gets a job, very large portion (probably not most but close) start at 6 figures. I never paid much attention to the start-up culture either in Ann Arbor or in Silicon Valley. I know there’s some in Ann Arbor, I’ve heard of a few people start there, but I don’t know anything useful about it I could tell you.

5

Wow I’m suprised many start at 6 figures, that speaks volumes for UMich. I’m going into the field foremost because of my passion, but salary is a great side benefit.

I kinda thought that while some schools were ranked higher than UMich, it wasn’t enough to forsake my “fit” (as I see it) for the ranking. I’m glad your data agrees.

If I may ask, where do most UMICH cs people end up geographically?

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The few main places are Silicon Valley, Seattle, Austin, and Chicago-Area. My guess is 3/4 will end up in one of those places.

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two more questions…

  1. I’ve applied to and was accepted to LSA, but have nearly all the AP credits to almost immediately transfer to CoE if I want. Is there a difference with CS recruiting between CS-LSA and CS-Eng? Like, I know the course material is the same (ish) but is there ANY perceived difference?

  2. In CS I know getting internships is key to both education and employment. You mention that ‘everyone’ gets jobs, but is getting internships for most students viable as well?

I think, overall, I’ll wait until my RD decisions come in, but UMich will probably be my choice (unless I get into Stanford, UCB, or CMU-SCS). From what I gather, the difference in prestige in engineering is not nearly as important when one compares UMich to any one school, so that’s where I stand as of now.

Thanks man, your input helps me a great deal.

8

There’s no perception difference between CS-LSA and CSE.

Yes, internships are the same situation. You probably won’t get annualized 100K for an internship but I think I got 17K or something like that for my internship between junior and senior year, which seemed to be about average.

9

It’s worth nothing that there was a career fair at Michigan Engineering last week that only allowed startup companies to attend. You can browse the list here: http://mpowered.umich.edu/careerfair/

There is another (general) career fair at the COE next week. The company list seems to be locked behind a umich login, so here is the one from last semester to give you an idea of who recruits here: http://benson.eecs.umich.edu

As a side note, I attended the Michigan hackers (filled with CS) meeting this week. I met four Seniors there, and all of them had accepted jobs offers. Two were going to Amazon, one to Google, and the last to one of the big banks, I don’t recall which. Three of them were CS (LSA) and one was CSE (COE).

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that’s awesome guys! CS-LSA is probably what I’ll be end up doing.

So financially, I will have $120,000 that I myself have right now from my business ventures.

I’ll probably get nothing in FA, so that’ll be $220,000 total for all four years (although I think it’s possible for me to get out sooner).

SO, disregarding any income I make during college (which realistically will be $40K or so all four years, unless you think otherwise with CS Internships/Co-ops), I will have $100,000 of tuition.

Is UMich worth $100,000?

This is assuming my parents won’t pitch in more, but they might actually throw in $100K themselves, making UMich free, but assume they won’t.

The alternative is $40K for four years for OSU Engineering, but the starting salary and recruiting for most CS people isn’t as high there (based on talking to students and data). This, obviously, I can pay RIGHT now.

11

Well, if we’re talking about smart use of money, unless you’re coming in with all the prereqs done, I think it’s smartest to get the prereqs done at a CC then transfer to university a year later. And if you are done with the prereqs then you can get your degree quicker than 4 years.

OSU has a high ceiling, Michigan has no ceiling. If you’re actually better than OSU’s ceiling, then yes, you should go to Michigan or another better school. If you’re not above OSU’s ceiling, just go there. Are you likely to be in the top quarter or top third in CS at Michigan? If not, then just go to OSU, you won’t be any better off at Michigan than at OSU.

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Vlad: as always, your post is well-reasoned. There may be one factor not “priced into” some of the comments: networks effects. While people mention going to top schools in order to make connections, that is typically not well quantified. However, in recent listings of high-net-worth people, the ratio of Michigan to OSU alums on the list is roughly 4 to 1.

If you look at this anecdotally you will see: Bill Joy (sun co-founder); Larry Page (Google co-founder); Jim Buckmaster (CEO and CTO of Craigslist); Dick Costolo (Twitter CEO); Eric Lefkovsky (sp? at Groupon along with Brad Keywell); Bobby Kotick (Activision…one of the largest game entities in the US); Tony Fadell (Apple then to Nest); Thomas Knoll (creator of Photoshop); David Bohnett (sold Geocities to Yahoo); Bob Beyster (former founder of SAIC); Dean Drako (Barracuda Networks)… These guys are not on campus any longer (in fact Beyster is recently deceased), but their firms may be friendly to a UM resume.

You also have educators who helped to create the comp-sci field, some of whom are still on campus.

So while you have to create and maximize the contacts, the folks who you meet a Michigan today might help you (or you them) make your future tomorrow. I’m sure that is somewhat true at OSU, but statistically less so as the numbers indicate.

13

Really glad I got into such a good fit then…
Just curious, CS-LSA has all acess to all of the CS-Eng fairs, correct? Like, including the MPowered startup one.

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Yes. CS-LSA in terms of all career fairs is basically the same as CSE. I’ll additionally say, based on how the career fairs are done, they can’t really lock you out of the CoE career fairs regardless of what major or school you’re in. It’s not like there’s anyone there checking up on you.

Blue85, fair enough. I don’t think that will be a major factor but it’s possible I’m wrong there.

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vlad (or anyone), do you guys know how many do CS/CE at UMich, CS-LSA, CS-Eng, CSE and everything included? Like, an estimate.

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You could look up the real numbers. I’ll guess probably 250ish a year but it’s been increasing over the past few years.