UMich v UMN Twin Cities (v U of I?) Chemical Engineering w interest in economics.

Hi all,

As you all know, enrollment decision deadlines are this weekend, and I am still stuck between schools. I currently plan to major in chemical engineering, though as is the case with many students, it is subject to change. I want to pursue a graduate degree in either engineering, economics, or maybe even an MBA, and after that pursue work in Europe.

My two main choices are UMich (Ann arbor) and UMN Twin Cities, and UIUC is still not completely off the table. That being said, my pros and cons are as follows. I’m just fishing for opinions or additional information so I can decide in these next couple days. Thanks!

Michigan
Pros: Nice campus, great student feel/environment, high reputation/“prestige”, better all around institution than my other options, which would be beneficial if I end up switching majors. Facilities (computer labs, study areas, building interiors) were modern and updated, great sports

Cons: Price (13k a year more than Minnesota), the dreaded north campus commute.

Minnesota

Pros: Price, really nice campus, Minneapolis would be really cool to live in, top ranked chemE program, admitted to honors program, the tour I took was in depth and helpful

Cons: Not sure if the name holds the same weight as Mich, I heard they were pretty specialized in chemical engineering, heard dorms/food were underwhelming,

Illinois
Pros: Price is moderate, renowned all around engineering, a lot of friends going here(in state), offered James and chancellors scholar,

Cons: wasn’t amazed by the campus or student environment, but I only visited once.

Again, this is all just my limited and maybe false knowledge, any help would be greatly appreciated!

We visited Minnesota with my son a couple of years ago. Honors program seemed pretty good. Econ is very good there. Lots of pluses. Urban campus. Housing meh. Is Michigan affordable?

I wouldn’t pay more than the UIUC cost if I was sure that I’d major in engineering.

More prestige options available outside engineering at UMich.

But CHP is nice.

I think it comes down to tuition of:

UIUC: $18K/yr
Minn: $26K
UMich: $44K

so, appx $32K more for Minn and $100K more for Michigan for an undergrad degree. Are those numbers correct? Given than UIUC and Michigan are reasonable close in rankings I would probably stick with UIUC, assuming that your family income is upper middle class or below. Is there any debt involved?

My son is also planning to major in ChemE but chose Michigan (in-state). We faced a similar choice and could not justify the $120-$150K extra cost at other schools despite better food, dorms, city, etc.

You could fund the MBA with the savings in tuition between Michigan and UIUC. If you pursue a PhD it will likely be funded so cost is not usually a factor.

I would list the factors most important to you assuming you are OK with the finances… Also consider the instability of Illinois finances and how that might affect in-state tuition.

Do you have direct admission to the chemical engineering major at UIUC? If so, then it makes sense to go there if it is the least expensive. However, some majors, particularly other engineering majors or computer science, can be difficult to change into.

Both Minnesota and Michigan admit to pre-engineering status. Getting into your major at Michigan does not seem difficult, according to http://advising.engin.umich.edu/declaring-or-changing-major/ , but Minnesota requires you to earn a 3.2 GPA to be assured entry into your major, with lower GPAs being admitted if there is space available, according to https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2whQR9AqcpVTWpzVGNZMjRTM00/view?pref=2&pli=1 .

If you do not have direct admission to chemical engineering at UIUC, you need to earn a 3.1 GPA to change into it, according to http://www.las.illinois.edu/students/programs/declaring/ .

Thanks for the replies,

@TooOld4School
UIUC cost of attendance will actually turn about to be around 36k

UMich will be around 41k (approx 52k more than Minnesota after 4 years)

Minnesota around 28k

If it is the case that Minnesota is the least expensive, then you have to trade off price versus the difficulty of getting into your major.

@TooOld4School can you speak on the facilities of Michigan? My tour was not as in depth as I would have liked, and as your son goes there, I was wondering if you had any insight on the dorms and other campus facilities such as study areas, libraries, computer labs, lounges, etc.

@ucbalumnus Yes I have earned direct admit to chemE at Illinois, but it is inbetween Minnesota and Michigan in terms of price. I preferred the other two schools based on visits, but for some reason I’m having a hard time declining my enrollment. I understand that guaranteeing a spot in chemE is a challenge, but I feel somewhat confident that I can secure a spot my sophomore year at Minnesota or Michigan. Obviously I may be wrong, but I’d like to think I’d be willing and able to put in the work required. Thanks for your input!

Did you get a scholarship to UMinny?

UMinny OOS tuition+R&B looks to be $31K.

UIUC in-state tuition+R&B looks to be 32K for ChemE but won’t go up for the 4 years that you are there.

Scholarship to UMich?
42K tuition+R&B for UMich OOS seems too low to me.

The labs are pretty amazing in the Michigan engineering school. Most of them are available to undergrad students with the requisite safety training. There are full machine shops, 3D printers, robotics labs, micro and nanofabs and huge amounts of space devoted to student projects. In addition the NCRC complex has > 1 million square ft of lab space devoted to research (the facility cost over $1 billion to build). Many undergrads and especially engineering students participate through the UROP program.

The main library is the Duderstat (“dude”) which is open 24x7 and is full of engineering workstations. Most every piece of software you might want or need is loaded on these. There are also remote / virtual stations you can access from your PC. There are lots of study rooms for group projects and (of course) ready access to coffee+snacks via the cafe. It is attached to Pierpont commons which has a few eateries (the Panda express is really good for a Panda with super fresh vegetables) , plus has a bookstore, pizza bar, piano lounge and tables for get togethers. There are also numerous other libraries around campus, the biggest are the grad library (beautiful reading room), undergrad library (UGLI- referring to its horrific pre-2000 appearance, now nice) and libraries for each school (business, law, etc) open to everyone. Sometimes they request only grad students or law students at a particular spot. They just refurbished the North Campus diag, it should be done by the time you start. There are also really interesting spaces like the map room ,Bentley historical library (rare books), art, archeology, and natural history museums. In nice weather many students study outside.

The engineering school maintains a separate network which has faster internet access than the rest of the university. It’s mostly gigabit speeds wired and >100Mb wireless. It can get slow around exams / semester end though. The university has PC’s and Macs all over campus but you can only access engineering software through the engineering workstations or via a virtual session.

Your cell phone carrier & phone should support wifi calling since signal can be bad in some buildings, especially in basements. UM has made a big effort to install cell repeaters but wifi is everywhere.

I’ve taken a few engineering classes recently and I was most impressed with the support you get. You just have to reach out. There are departmental lounges, help sessions, and the professors were always willing to help out during office hours or after class. Sometimes if I was stuck on a problem set the would nudge you in the right direction - but not so much that you did not learn.

In addition there are engineering fraternities - these are great to join - it is difficult to get through your classes without some help.

You will probably spend a good amount of time on central campus - I would try to request a dorm there because many of your classes will be there initially (chemistry, math) and the dorms are either refurbished (all) or new (North Quad) . Almost all are coed by room. The older ones are mostly doubles with a few singles and triples. It takes 10 min on the bus between campuses. Classes are staggered so they start 10 min past the hour (Michigan time) on central campus and 40 min past the hour on North campus. Best food is at West Quad, the Hill dorms, and the lawyers club. Avoid Markley dorm.

Social life outside of your dorm is mostly around central campus because of off-campus housing, restaurants and shops. The music school (on north campus) has lots of free recitals and concerts and there are productions at the Stamps theater. Most of the big (student theater, UMS, etc) are on central campus. You also have access to city buses (free with university ID) which go all over town- direct to grocery stores, the mall, etc. and to Ypsilanti.

If you are from Chicagoland RT via Amtrak is $50-80, less on Megabus.

Recruiting is very strong at Michigan. There are also student incubators and lot of local startups founded by Michigan students. Alumni come frequently to speak on how they founded their companies. There is a very entrepreneurial spirit at the engineering school.

You don’t have an easy decision. Minnesota ChemE is outstanding. You also get Minneapolis, a wonderful city but extra cold. You would be giving up flexibility should you decide to change majors vs Michigan, but is that worth $52K? I think a lot of it depends on your future goals too.

@PurpleTitan yeah sorry, i didn’t make it clear that all those COA estimates are adjusted according to gift aid and scholarships

@TooOld4School my future goals are kinda up in the air, but I know that I would like to attend grad school and pursue a masters, but I’m not sure what it would be in yet. I’m not sure if I’ll have trouble being admitted into grad school for a different program with an undergrad degree in chemE, but I may end up sticking with engineering in grad school. I will have to do some soul searching, but ultimately I’d like to work the highest paying job I can find (as is the case with most people haha) in Western Europe. I would like to set up a career/life there, but of course that isn’t set in stone either. I know I’m super indecisive so it’s hard to help me out, but your was super helpful.