UMich vs. Duke - Engineering

College Search & Selection
1

I’m interested in pursuing an engineering undergrad, but I would like to move into management later. I would not like to work as an engineer for the rest of my life, but seeking an engineering degree (most likely an electrical or mechanical) interests me due to the flexibility of the major later in my career, from what I’ve heard. For a minor, I am planning on philosophy, although I would also enjoy studying psychology and economics.

I am currently deciding between Duke or Umich, and as I see it, both have advantages and disadvantages. I will list them below but feel free to correct me, as many of you will likely have more experience than me on the subject.

(The cost of attendance will be very similar for both, and I am out of state for Umich)

Duke:


[QUOTE=""]

Pros:

  • “Prestige”
  • Higher overall rank
  • Strong alumni network
  • More selective
  • Greater endowment per student
  • Breadth in engineering education (into humanities)
  • Better weather

Cons:

  • Lower engineering rank

[/QUOTE]

UMich:


[QUOTE=""]

Pros:

  • Higher engineering rank
  • Large alumni network
  • Depth in engineering education

Cons:

  • Lower overall rank
  • Less selective
  • Worse weather

[/QUOTE]

I can see myself at both of these schools, but at the moment, given the mentioned pros, Duke seems to be the better fit for me. My main doubt in making this decision (aside from the factors I may be accidentally overlooking) is whether the pros (which appear to be manifold) offered by Duke are worth it in return for the considerably worse engineering ranking. I have heard that the education and opportunities (internship, clubs, research, job placement, grad school) are equally available and valuable at Duke as they are at UMich. However, from my visits to both schools, and after talking to several people, I had a sense that UMich had the edge in this regard when it comes to engineering, especially considering its much larger student body, engineering department, and results at competitions.

I ask for your two cents in how I should go about this choice considering my interests (mentioned at the top) and the opportunities available at both of these great schools. If I have overlooked some important aspect, feel free to mention it.

Thank you.

2

What is your cost to attend each?

3

Full cost for both.

4

Overall prestige of an institution makes no difference in engineering. It’s all about the quality of the engineering program. Most of the “pros” for Duke will have very little impact. Do you have a lower priced option?

5

Are you accepted or applying? It is hard to tell at this time of the year. If you are applying, understand that it may be harder to get into UM as an OSS engineering major than Duke.

6

@eyemgh Georgia Tech would be the lower priced option, but I have currently ruled it out because of its lack of strong majors aside from engineering (which is nonetheless excellent).

@Eeyore123 Accepted.

7

If GT is significantly cheaper, I would go there. An engineering degree from GT + cash in pocket ( or less debt) dominates your other two choices. I believe that you are overweighting the non engineering academics. If you move into management, you will likely be going to get a MBA.

8

Humblest, Duke is not more prestigious than Michigan…where it matters anyway. If you apply to graduate school, or for a job, the Duke name is not going to trump the Michigan name. Both are very highly regarded by graduate school adcoms and employers.

Also, for OOS applicants, Michigan is not less selective than Duke.

That being said, you said that Duke is a better fit for you. As such, that is where you should go.

Or you could do as Eeyore suggests, save money and go to GT. That’s a good option too.

9

@Eeyore123 Since engineering is more a means than an end to me, the lack of breadth at GT, at least in comparison to the other choices, led to me ruling it out. I thank you for the input nonetheless, I have extensively considered and researched all of my options until narrowing them down to these two, so there are other factors that I took into account.

@Alexandre Thank you for your feedback as well. As far as selectivity is concerned, I use the statistic as a point of reference for the students I would be surrounded by in each environment, which may be IS or OOS, and belonging to a variety of majors. While all of these universities are filled with high-caliber individuals, I believe the highest percentage of such would be found at more selective schools.

10

“Thank you for your feedback as well. As far as selectivity is concerned, I use the statistic as a point of reference for the students I would be surrounded by in each environment, which may be IS or OOS, and belonging to a variety of majors. While all of these universities are filled with high-caliber individuals, I believe the highest percentage of such would be found at more selective schools.”

That is what I thought too, until I found myself struggling to keep up with those “lower stat” in-state students. Just because in-state students have lower test scores than OOS students does not mean they are any less academically inclined. Most in-state applicants/students at Michigan do not spend nearly as much time preparing for those standardized tests as OOS applicants/students. The paradigm is completely different. In-state students, for the most part, do not look beyond the University of Michigan. It is their end game. They know that as long as are among the top students in their respective high school classes, they have a good shot of getting into Michigan. As such, they hardly prepare for the ACT/SAT. If you do end up at Michigan, I would caution you against underestimating your classmates. They may have slightly lower test scores, but they did not invest as much time preparing for those tests. In the case of Michigan, having a slightly lower standardized test score average does not mean its student body is of a lower calibre.

11

You’re in for a rude awakening if you feel like engineering will be any less than challenging…anywhere. There’s simply nothing you’ve experienced in HS that will fully prepare you for the next level. The pace is higher and the concepts build. Basically the hardest thing you’ve taken to date, probably Calc II or Calc based Physics will be the floor of your difficulty scale. The mettle of the very brightest are tested by engineering. I can also tell you this, you won’t get fewer job opportunities or make less money if you choose Georgia Tech. The money that you pay to go anywhere else will be for the experience, but won’t have a financial return.

12

Most of your pros are not based on accurate information.

  1. Duke is not more prestigious than Michigan...not amongst educated people, graduate school admissions committees or employers anyway
  2. Duke is only ranked higher than Michigan if the methodology/data reporting and collection is flawed. The two universities are peers and should be ranked roughly the same
  3. Duke's alumni network is not stronger than Michigan's
  4. Duke has a lower acceptance rate, but the quality of the student bodies is similar
  5. Duke's endowment per student is higher, but when you factor state funding and economies of scale, the two schools have roughly similar wealth
  6. I do not see why you would haver a broader engineering education at Duke. Many engineering students at Michigan take loads of classes in LSA. Many even double major.
  7. The weather in North Carolina is definitely milder. To most, that is a plus, but many surprisingly enjoy a nice cold winter. ;)

At any rate, go with your gut. If you are feeling Duke, go for it. You cannot go wrong with Duke.

13

@Alexandre

I think the student bodies are both high quality and there is significant overlap, but there is evidence to suggest Duke’s student body has a significantly higher number of the highest achievers:

ACT score ranges are almost identical (still slightly favor Duke, with at least a quarter of Duke’s class securing a 35 or more on the ACT), but this is not the best statistical metric because there are so few discrete data “buckets” to fall into.

Looking into the SAT score ranges exposes the big difference:

Michigan:1350-1530

Duke: 1440-1570, 1490-1570 Arts&Sciences, Engineering

Additional Statistics Focusing specifically on Engineering:

Median ACT for UMich Engineering: 33
ACT 25%-75% Duke Engineering: 33-35

For the ACT, Michigan’s average student falls in the 25% of Duke’s student pool.

Median SAT for UMich Engineering is 1410, while Duke’s range for Engineering is 1490-1570, their 25%ile is above Michigan’s median.

Of course, standardized test scores are not everything, but with large sample sizes with aggregated data, they are pretty decent predictors of “student quality”. The data suggests that Duke’s incoming engineering class has a significantly higher number of the highest achievers. However, Michigan still bests Duke for actual rankings in engineering (which are admittedly research driven, but undergrad students are increasingly involved in research).

I agree both schools have similar reputations in the professional and academic world, but I also think the average Duke incoming undergraduate is of “higher quality” than the average Michigan incoming undergraduate. It is up the OP to decide how much this matters to him/her/appropriate gender pronoun.

Both schools will offer about the same level of professional and academic opportunities (both are heavily respected by graduate schools, both have are heavily recruited, and both have very strong and loyal alumni networks). There is no clear choice here in terms of opportunities, except Duke being a good few ranks better with Biomedical Engineering (which makes a difference since undergraduate BMEs get the short end of the stick when it comes to professional opportunities right out of undergrad) and Michigan significantly besting Duke with autonomous systems/robotics research (it is a niche field that is very lucrative and hard to get significant undergrad exposure to unless your school is really into it, which Michigan is). The OP should really choose based on fit (where he/she/appropriate gender pronoun would be happiest).

Sources:

http://admissions.duke.edu/images/uploads/process/DukeClass2021Profile.pdf

https://admissions.umich.edu/apply/freshmen-applicants/student-profile

https://www.engin.umich.edu/about/facts/

14

Both schools will offer about the same level of professional and academic opportunities (both are heavily respected by graduate schools, both have are heavily recruited, and both have very strong and loyal alumni networks). There is no clear choice here in terms of opportunities, except Duke being significantly better with BME (which makes a difference since undergraduate BMEs get the short end of the stick when it comes to professional opportunities right out of undergrad) and Michigan significantly besting Duke with autonomous systems/robotics research (it is a niche field that is very lucrative and hard to get undergrad exposure unless your school is really into it, which Michigan is).”

If Duke is “significantly better” than Michigan in BME, than Michigan is significantly better than Duke in every other comparable engineering major.

15

@rjkofnovi

I agree - ranking just does not make nearly as much of a difference in other engineering fields. For most engineering disciplines, any school in the top 10ish will be recruited comparably for jobs in their field right out of undergrad. BMEs feel the difference, however. Some of my best friends are BMEs (I know people at Johns Hopkins [#2 BME], Michigan [#9 BME], and Rutgers [#? BME]), and they and can attest to that.

16

@Humblest my sons path is similar. Engineering leading to business management. He is taking industrial engineering since its more business focus with a business minor. He and 3 friends started a tech club and won 2 grants one for $5,000 and 1for $10,000. He is coming back next week for a week capstone https://lsa.umich.edu/bli/bli-fellows/capstone-experience11

They already won https://www.optimizemi.org/#turn-ideas-into-impact.

All of this has lead to a university of Michigan alumni reaching out to them to be part of this fast growing sector. He was put on an advisory panel for one of the largest seed companies in the start up world. Again through Michigan alumni.

He is just ending his freshman year.

Someone said it Nicely. At Michigan you can be whatever you want to be.

Good Luck.

17

@Alexandre My pros and cons are based on both objective and subjective information I have gathered thus far. They may not be accurate, and that is one of the reasons why I come here to request advice. Nevertheless, considering that everything you write places UMich and Duke together, or gives the edge to UMich, makes me skeptical of the accuracy of such information.

For instance:
“4. Duke has a lower acceptance rate, but the quality of the student bodies is similar”
Is there any evidence, other than personal experience, for such claim given that it is used to refute a number?

It’s important to note that I do speak from the ignorance of a high school senior, and I understand that when I ask for people’s two cents, subjective perspectives are bound to surface, and I welcome these as much as I do objective ones.

@yikesyikesyikes Thank you for the analysis of the statistical representation of standardized testing (I am a male by the way). I have tried to convince myself to major in BME, but (although this completely subjective to change) I have not been able to, I am definitely more inclined into the electrical and mechanical side of engineering (even though I have no experience with either). Both of which are much better ranked at UMich than Duke. Still unsure as to the importance of ranking

@Knowsstuff Congratulations! Always great to hear personal experiences with each university. It’s the type of thing that numbers may fail to encompass. Given that he is yet to complete a full year at the university and is already working with large companies and making connections is exactly the type of thing I am looking for in college.

18

@Humblest… Alumni started reaching out to them the second they were a registered group is very real. Even y-combinator reached out through another alumni. He is on their student advisory board. Look up what they do. They are a 50 billion dollar company that started, reddit, Uber, airbnb, drop box, stripe etc etc.

Again, if you want things to happen then they will. Michigan is willing to give the resources. There are also ann arbor meet ups on various topics. These are student and company based and small groups.

They were shocked their wasn’t this type of tech group so they just started their own. University was 100% behind them and professors willing and excited to help. The old “make it and they will come” philosophy… Lol.

19

You should post this on the engineering forum and don’t leave out that you were accepted to Georgia Tech and that it is quite a bit cheaper. You will get the perspective of engineers who have and do hire, not simply the perspective of people defending their pet institutions.

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/

20

@eyemgh As much as I would like to, I don’t think I am allowed to create repetitive posts.

Also, I have been accepted to other excellent universities that after plenty of research, visits, and talking with people, I have ruled for a variety of motives.
Aside from Duke, UMich, and GTech, I have also been accepted to Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Carnegie Mellon, UT Austin, UIUC, UF, and UCF. As great as these may be, which they are (reason why I applied to them), they are not right for me for a reason or another.

I have mentioned specifically Duke and UMich, because I am especially interested in these two, and I think that in order to have a more productive discussion, comparing these two schools head to head is the optimal approach, given that I have 1 week to make the decision.

Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless.