<p>Hi everyone,</p>
<p>I need help choosing Between UMich n Northwestern for engineering..</p>
<p>any suggestions?? :s</p>
<p>It is only a choice if cost is a major concern. Otherwise, Northwestern.</p>
<p>Pretty sure UMich for engineering.</p>
<p>I would visit both if possible and pick best fit. Both would serve you well for engineering and if you decide to switch majors they are both strong in business and humanities with Northwestern having the edge.</p>
<p>Northwestern has a very different teaching method for engineering then UMich does so take that into consideration as well.</p>
<p>Also if one is significantly cheaper for you than the other than that should be a big factor for you.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>Northwestern doesn’t have the edge. Prove it to me with data and I’ll relent; going by US News rankings alone is foolhardy.</p>
<p>[Employment</a> Statistics - Career Management Center for Employers at Kellogg](<a href=“Employment Statistics | Career Management Center for Employers”>Employment Statistics | Career Management Center for Employers)</p>
<p>[Employment</a> Profile - University of Michigan Business School](<a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/EmploymentOverview.htm]Employment”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/EmploymentOverview.htm)</p>
<p>Data for MBA but is correlated to BBA as well from given data. 10% difference in average starting salaries and check which companies hire from each.</p>
<p>[Employment</a> Statistics - Career Management Center for Employers at Kellogg](<a href=“Employment Statistics | Career Management Center for Employers”>Employment Statistics | Career Management Center for Employers)
[Employment</a> Profile - University of Michigan Business School](<a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/TopHiringCompanies.htm]Employment”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/EmploymentProfile/TopHiringCompanies.htm)</p>
<p>Top hiring companies for each school. More clustering by top companies at Northwestern then at University of Michigan. Correlated to BBA as well from given data.</p>
<p>There is some data for Business programs at each school. I did not refer to U.S news at all when making my initial statements FYI.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>[Top</a> US Colleges ? Graduate Salary Statistics](<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp]Top”>http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp)</p>
<p>[Best</a> Undergraduate Engineering Programs - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-engineering]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-engineering)</p>
<p>Probably Michigan, unless Northwestern is a better fit/cheaper. In other words, pick which one you think you would enjoy going to more (noting that you probably don’t know this right now).</p>
<p>Michigan is much stronger for engineering (if you want to by the rankings). If you are interested in materials science, I have heard Northwestern has a strong program. All of the top engineering companies (Microsoft, Google, Lockheed Martin, Exxon, etc.) come to recruit on campus for Michigan.</p>
<p>Kellogg is much stronger than Ross for MBA students, I agree with you on that, but MBA rankings are in no way correlated to BBA rankings. No Ross BBA with a working brain would consider going there again for an MBA. </p>
<p>Your data are good, but your analysis is highly flawed.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>So you are saying that the strength of a graduate or undergraduate program does not correlate with one another? The alumni network and the companies who choose to recruit at one will not benefit the other? k.</p>
<p>He’s saying that the Ross BBA is good enough on its own, so students do not need to pursue an MBA.</p>
<p>No, I’m saying that aalba005 has absolutely no idea what he’s talking about. For one, he fails to realize that Northwestern doesn’t even offer a BBA program.</p>
<p>[Kellogg</a> School of Management Undergraduate Certificate Programs - Kellogg School of Management - Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/certificate/students/jobs.htm]Kellogg”>http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/certificate/students/jobs.htm)</p>
<p>undergraduate certificate from Kellogg in business for undergrads.</p>
<p>100% employment rate for recent grads in 2009 from top companies. UMich BBA students employment rate for BBA is not 100%, let alone the company list is not as impressive.</p>
<p>My friend, you are a freshman at UMich, i understand why you have such a strong opinion on the subject. I never stated Northwestern has a BBA, you inferred it. I was referring to BBA from UMich and undergraduates going into business jobs in IBanking, finance and consulting from Northwestern.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>Wrong, I’m a high school senior who has been accepted to Michigan. Northwestern, too, for that matter, yet I’m choosing to attend Ross over going to NU. Show me data displaying that the mean graduating salary for Northwestern undergrads receiving that certificate is greater than that of a Ross BBA. </p>
<p>Also, on what basis are you claiming the company list is not as impressive?
<a href=“http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2009.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bus.umich.edu/pdf/EmploymentProfile2009.pdf</a>
Go to page 15/44 in that PDF and check the dots under BBA; QED.</p>
<p>Need I mention that not even Wharton has a 100% employment rate for recent grads?
Need I mention that only 34 seniors actually received the certificate mentioned in your link?</p>
<p>Once again, I ask for solid statistics proving that the average NU undergrad student going into the fields you mentioned makes more than the average Ross BBA student going into those fields.</p>
<p>Its a new program, just started 2 years ago. 34 seniors, and check the companies represented. The starting salaries for those companies are higher then the average starting salary for BBA grads across the nation including UMich.</p>
<p>The dots are impressive, but the actually # of grads going into Top Tier consulting, banking or finance firms are <5% of UMich grads, i can say that a higher % of those 34 recent graduates from the new Northwestern program got into Top Tier consulting, banking or fiance firms which offer higher than average starting salaries.</p>
<p>They have a 100% employment rate so far because its a new small program that is piggy backing on the Kellogg Brand.</p>
<p>Its nice to be on the side of the argument where you can pick and dissect an argument for every little detail, finding solid statistics could be all but impossible since its not readily accessible.</p>
<p>In MY opinion, from all the data and information i have seen, i would rather be part of the new Northwestern Kellogg initiative with a proven track record of sending most of the students to top firms then to UMich for business. To me that tells me that Northwestern has the edge as i stated in my first reply.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/896746-where-were-you-accepted-waitlisted-rejected.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/896746-where-were-you-accepted-waitlisted-rejected.html</a>
You forgot to list your acceptance to Northwestern on this post btw.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>Of course NU students in that program have a higher % of getting accepted to those top-tier firms. That’s because that program only selects the best of the best of NU students… as evidenced by the small number of awardees. If you take the top 34 seniors in Ross, I’m willing to bet they easily get into the exact same companies.</p>
<p>You were implying before that the 100% employment rate makes that program better than a Ross BBA. If you’re smart, you should be able to tell that that program is ridiculously hard to get into even among NU students. It’s not something you can just “choose” to do, even considering you’re already in Northwestern. Ergo, it’s not surprising.</p>
<p>One final note: I quote you, “proven track record.” I quote you again, “just started 2 years ago.” Think about what you’re saying here.</p>
<p>Proven track record relates to success in a specific event that is to be repeated. Does not necessarily correlate with length of time. In sports and in business, track records can be ascertained within months, Toyota has many years of track record in safety, in 3 months they have a different track record entirely. </p>
<p>When you apply for jobs or internships, they ask for proven track record in certain skills, they look for evidence from your experience, even if it is only 2 years of length. I doubt many college students looking for jobs or internships have more than 2-3 years of said skills or experience or they have been in school for far too long.</p>
<p>The students that are picked for these certificates are freshman and sophomores, they just finished some general ed credits, it is not possible to say that these 34 were the top students in NU pursuing business just like you can’t tell if a freshman or sophomore pursuing engineering will make it past the Junior Engineering weed-out courses that take out 20-30% of the class. This is why your example of the top 34 UMich Seniors is wrong. If you can prove the top UMich business students at Sophmore level are the top UMich business students at Senior level with statistical proof then i will agree with you. </p>
<p>For these top tier jobs the interview is 80% of the battle, how does NU evaluate students to insure they will be great interviewers in 2-3 years time when they graduate before they are to be accepted into the certificate programs? I don’t understand your logic.</p>
<p>The “Evidence by the small number of awardees” is because its a new pilot program that they are garnering support for at first then plan to increase in size by an exponential amount in the next few years.</p>
<p>So you do not deny you lied about being accepted to NU?</p>
<p>Back to the original statement i made, “both strong in business and humanities with Northwestern having the edge”, NU with the vast arguments i have made is a strong choice for business, and for humanities being vastly superior in Math, Chemistry, Psychology, Sociology, English and political science, i still say if they are similarly priced, i would go with NU for Engineering giving the poster more options if he/she decides engineering is not for them and decides to go with business, science or other humanities.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>Misspoke about English majors but you get the gist of the point. Trying to correct it because would not want to waste time arguing about specifics of every major between the two schools with you.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You lose credibility.</p>
<p>[Ranking</a> of U.S. Undergraduate Psychology Programs](<a href=“http://www.socialpsychology.org/gunder.htm]Ranking”>Ranking of U.S. Undergraduate Psychology Programs)
[Rankings</a> - Psychology - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-psychology-schools/rankings]Rankings”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-psychology-schools/rankings)</p>
<p>And as for your question, I simply forgot to include NU when I made my post. I applied there because they offered generous scholarship opportunities which would have made NU a better choice had I qualified for them. Stop trying to undermine my character through an ad hominem attack, it’s fallacious and downright pathetic. </p>
<p>Sorry, but I’m not even going to bother arguing with someone who praises his own “arguments,” which are, in fact, nothing more than prejudiced rambling.</p>
<p>Alright.</p>
<p>Funny you say don’t refer to US news in your first post but you applied to 8 of the top 10 for undergraduate business based on the rankings.</p>
<p>Anyways.</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Stanford
Duke
UChicago
Dartmouth
Columbia
Northwestern</p>
<p>Do not offer an undergraduate degrees in Business.</p>
<p>Your first reply about kellogg is much stronger than Ross for MBA students can be substituted for any of the schools above</p>
<p>“Harvard Business School is much stronger than Ross for MBA students, I agree with you on that, but MBA rankings are in no way correlated to BBA rankings. No Ross BBA with a working brain would consider going there again for an MBA”</p>
<p>This is how your logic sounds to me.</p>
<p>These schools offer certificate programs or electives in business but no business degree in undergrad. Top Tier Consulting, Investment Firms and High Finance are made up of 90% of alumni from these schools. They take the alumni network and strength of their graduate degrees when applicable for recruiting. I would go to ANY of these schools over UMich if i wanted to do business for a top tier company.</p>
<p>Read ‘vaults guide to Investment Banking’
Read ‘vaults guide to Management Consulting’</p>
<p>Or private message any of the many professionals working in Investment banking, High Finance or Consulting on these boards on what they would recommend if they wanted to do business would they choose one of the above schools or UMich for undergrad.</p>
<p>Just because you started to read these forums and searched US news and applied to a dozen schools in the last 6 to 12 months that you are confident you know whats what? You need to learn to be more humble and not so combative, this you will learn in college the hard way. </p>
<p>Again with nitpicking my arguments.</p>
<p>I can almost say for a fact you did not apply to NU because you only applied to schools that had business programs and you just found out in this thread by searching that NU don’t have a BBA, meaning you didn’t do any research on the program to apply for it to begin with, but that’s besides the point.</p>
<p>You can think what you want, there are mounds of books you can find on amazon on getting into consulting, IBanking and high finance with specific data you seek and you can also browse the specialty forums on these boards or other boards and see for yourself.</p>
<p>Btw making points by nitpicking choice arguments does not equate to credibility on your part.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>