<p>“irrelevant since it doesn’t blend with CS which OP specified”</p>
<p>The OP was looking for schools that are strong in both areas. So it is not irrelevant.</p>
<p>just remembered that I know some kid doing this program, forgot about since it’s kind of obscure and Michigan doesn’t really market it</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/pat/bs_curr_d.htm[/url]”>http://www.music.umich.edu/departments/pat/bs_curr_d.htm</a></p>
<p>“202 responded.”
As with any of these kind of surveys, only people who landed good gigs (in their mind) or gigs at all submit their stats. It’s called selection bias. You are far closer to the truth using the 480 as denominator than the 202, even though the truth is somewhere in between.</p>
<p>“Michigan Econ placement is comparable? That’s hopeful thinking, but not true”
9 out of 480 (less than 2%) landing true elite gigs? That’s about right where Michigan Econ would get you. I know 5 econ major my year who ended up at BB/MBB/chicago trading shops just off the top of my head; all of whom I met on recruiting trails.</p>
<p>Okay, so I´ve done some research on my end, and here´s what I came up with:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>UMich and Berkeley both have CS and CS + Art in the same fashion: UMich has “pure” CS through the EECS program at the School of Engineering, and has CS + Art through the College of Literature, Science, and the Arts. Berkeley has “pure” CS through an identically named EECS program at the College of Engineering, and offers a sort of CS + Art program through the College of Letters and Science. </p>
<ul>
<li>The rest of the universities offer CS and CS + Art, but not through completely different Colleges or Schools, but rather as programs within a single school. For example, UIUC is opening the CS + X program in their Department of Computer Science, Georgia Tech offers a very cool program called Computational Media through their College of Computing, and UT offers the Game Development Certificate Program through the College of Natural Sciences.</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>
<p>And do you want to know what I came out with after this research?</p>
<p>Absolutely nothing. I still don´t know which one to opt for. All of them seem on par to me. But I guess part of that is due to the fact that I don´t really know the nooks and cranies of each program.</p>
<p>Anyone know something about these programs so that they can maybe advise?</p>
<p>All of the schools you mentioned have stellar CS programs. I would say Umich and Berkeley are the best schools overall. They both are excellent schools with great research opportunities. It really comes down to your fit. A few questions for you…</p>
<p>-You mentioned location being a factor. What kind of location would you like?
-Do you have any additional passions/activities you would like to be involved in?
-What are your stats? (ACT/GPA)
-Can you afford these schools?</p>
<p>As far as location is concerned, nothing beats Berkeley, that I’m aware of. But I’m not in it for the weather (though I do admit Illinois winter would probably kick my ass), I’m in it for the research opportunities/possible jobs that are offered at the locations.</p>
<p>Like I said, I’d very much enjoy a CS program that has Fine Arts on the side, check the latest post I did on the forum to see if you can advise me on some of the programs I found in each university.</p>
<p>I’m an international student from a relatively unknown school, which means I don’t get the priviledge of having formal Honors Classes, something I’m afraid will make me look rather puny in the eye of admission officers, still, you gotta work with what you have.</p>
<p>SAT I: 2200 (Math 750, CR 750, W 700)
TOEFL (For whatever it’s worth): 112/120
SAT II: (Math 780, Physics: 690)
Converted GPA: 3.65 (Salutatorian in a class of 44)</p>
<p>Honors: High Honor Roll throughout High School.
National Qualifier in Math Olympics
Regional Qualifier in a Debate Team
90+ Hours of community service
Certificate of Outstanding Participation in Model UN New York
Been employed in the design and construction of websites and cloud based software in the past.
Some other stuff, but since this isn’t an actual application I won’t bother.</p>
<p>As far as affording goes, I can scrape by given that they’re public (though barely). Other universities like Carnegie Mellon and Stanford are a big no no financially, unless a miraculous financial aid package drops out of the sky.</p>
<p>P.S.</p>
<p>The GPA is unweighted.</p>
<p>You say Stanford is too expensive, but since you’re international I think you might have some trouble getting financial aid. Without financial aid, Cal and Mich are pretty much the same cost as Stanford or Carnegie Mellon.</p>
<p>As for the schools, they’re all top CS programs and heavily recruited. There’s no big difference between them in that regard. You’re deciding factor will have to come down to where you think you’d be happiest based on environment/fit. If location is your most important factor, I’d say Cal and then Texas, although I don’t think location is going to make much of a difference for finding a job unless you prefer small local startups. Michigan is great too, though, and I’m sure you’d enjoy it.</p>
<p>Based one the things you said, I think the only factor left is the ranking.
Internship, clubs and research opportunities are pretty much the same. (except UCB that really stands out between these schools)
If you can get into UCB don’t hesitate, apply. </p>
<p>I also recommend you these public unis: University of Washington, Purdue University, Pennsylvania State University, Texas A&M University, University of Maryland, College Park</p>
<p>And if your applying to UCB, pay another $160 and apply to UCLA and UCSD…</p>
<p>Another thing: if your more into research than other miscellaneous things (like students body, place, weather etc.) apply to some top tier Canadian unis too. They tuition and fees are considerably less than US unis. I recommend: University of Toronto, UBC, Waterloo and McGill. and IF (and that’s a really big if) you can tolerate cold weather apply to UAlberta.
Visit this:
[Tuition</a> fees by university](<a href=“http://www.aucc.ca/canadian-universities/facts-and-stats/tuition-fees-by-university/]Tuition”>http://www.aucc.ca/canadian-universities/facts-and-stats/tuition-fees-by-university/)</p>
<p>I appreciate your counseling, but part of the reason I created this forum is because I already narrowed down my options to these schools (and Stanford). Thank you for listing me other options, I appreciate the extra mile, but this is my final list of universities. </p>
<p>That being said: Does anyone know anything about the CS + Art programs that I listed in each university?</p>
<p>I could really use a hand from someone who knows the programs first hand, or who at least has some knowledge of the programs.</p>
<p>“As far as affording goes, I can scrape by given that they’re public (though barely). Other universities like Carnegie Mellon and Stanford are a big no no financially, unless a miraculous financial aid package drops out of the sky.”</p>
<p>Are you aware that you will pay out of state tuition at the state schools, and that out of state tuition is comparable to private school tuition? If Stanford at 60K is a big financial no-no, how are you going to pay for these schools which cost only a few thousand dollars per year less than Stanford? (eg. Berkeley 52-56K, Michigan 53-56K)? What are you going to do if they raise tuition more than you expected at one of those state Universities?</p>
<p>Thanks for the heads up, but I was well aware of out of state costs. Thing is, I have a college fund, one that covers very extensively public universities, and only mildly private universities. </p>
<p>So yeah.</p>
<p>In the past, I attended UIUC and took Computer Science classes there.(*) Currently, I am a software developer who lives in Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Internships are often at private companies. Ann Arbor itself actually has a lot of opportunities in technology despite its size. It’s also next to metro Detroit, where the “Big Three” auto manufacturers are hiring many IT professionals and downtown Detroit has a growing startup scene.</p>
<p>It should be noted that off-campus internships will likely offer very different experience than on-campus internships and research opportunities. On-campus jobs are likely to involve academic research. Off-campus internships are likely to involve technologies valued by the private sector. Which is better for you depends on your career goals.</p>
<p>That said, the terms of your student visa may restrict your ability to work off campus, even in an internship.</p>
<p>Also, if you’re interested in startups and new technology, many firms in this sector prefer to see open-source projects posted at GitHub or a similar website. This shows that you’ve given back to the community. It also shows the quality of your code. This is more of a long-term action item, as I’m sure you have many things on your plate right now.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ann Arbor is truly an amazing place. It’s vibrant, culturally interesting, and visually gorgeous. It’s also very safe, even late at night in the areas near campus.</p>
<p>I really like and have been impressed with most of the Michigan students and alumni I’ve met. They usually manage to be bright and social at the same time. From what I’ve seen of the culture, it is welcoming, inclusive, and diverse.</p>
<p>If you wind up at UIUC, Urbana is vastly preferable to Champaign. This is especially true if you will start out in a residence hall, which is generally required for first-year students.</p>
<p><a href=“though%20I%20do%20admit%20Illinois%20winter%20would%20probably%20kick%20my%20ass”>QUOTE=AGoodJoke</a>
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Actually, winter will be slightly warmer in Champaign-Urbana than in Ann Arbor because the former is quite a bit farther north. It won’t make a huge difference, though. You’ll be able to adjust to colder winters than you’re used to. I spent a winter in Montreal, and people from warm climates seemed to adjust to the cold.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This doesn’t make sense unless your fund prefers public universities for some reason. If you have a fixed amount of money no matter where you attend, then the cost difference is minimal as others have already noted. In fact, private universities may offer merit aid, while top-tier public universities tend not to for out-of-state students.</p>
<p>Just curious, is cost the only reason for ruling out Carnegie Mellon? Academically, it seems to be a good fit for what you’re looking for. And Pittsburgh is actually a very nice city (its reputation is outdated).</p>
<p>(*) I voluntarily withdrew from the university and graduated from another four-year university. My GPA was over 3.5 in courses at UIUC.</p>
<p>Originally, Carnegie was my ED, because I was blown away by their School of Computer Science and their BCSA, but the thing is Carnegie does not offer any sort of financial aid to international students, and it is DAMN expensive!</p>
<p>I’m still going to apply, because I already have their Common Application done. (Again, it was originally my ED).</p>
<p>As for the climate, I wasn’t aware Michigan could get as cold - or colder, like you said - as UIUC. But then again climate isn’t all that important, it’s just a tie breaker.</p>
<p>One more thing, is Detroit really as bad as people claim it is?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Why on earth is Michigan on your list?</p>
<p>I imagine the big name firms recruit at all of those school for EECS majors (I can confirm they do so at Michigan) so if you’re instate for any of them, go there. </p>
<p>If you’re not instate for any, then I don’t know. They’re all fine choices. Assuming you get into all of them, I think I would head to UT myself. Austin is the next boom city, cost of living is low, jobs are abundant. Texas as a state is doing very well economically and has a strong local culture. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You’re never going to have reason to go to the bad parts of Detroit. If you go to Detroit at all you’re gonna go downtown which is perfectly safe and nice. It’s only the outskirts that are crime ridden and half-abandoned. Ann Arbor is about 45 minutes from Detroit. Detroit doesn’t have the same relation to the suburbs as other cities do. You don’t default head to Detroit for a Saturday night out or something. You’d stay in Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>^You are unlikely to get aid from Michigan either. CMU would be more expensive, but not by much, around $62k vs roughly $55k. Maybe that is a difference maker for you, but it doesn’t seem like that significant a difference. </p>
<p>UIUC is slightly warmer, and also gets less snow than Ann Arbor. It’s quite a bit less expensive as well. I liked Urbana-Champaign more than I expected to when I visited with my daughter, but it certainly has nothing on Ann Arbor. </p>
<p>The Metro Detroit area does offer cultural amenities you won’t find in a smaller place, and Ann Arbor has convenient access to a major airport.</p>
<p>I will second Pittsbugh being a nicer place than you might expect as well.</p>
<p>The problem is that there really aren’t any bargains for international students at elite universities.</p>
<p>Downtown Detroit has already improved. So have many other Detroit neighborhoods, including Midtown and Corktown. My overall impression of Detroit is that it’s rapidly improving.</p>
<p>Ann Arbor is close enough to Detroit that you can get there if you have access to a car, but you never have to go unless you want to.</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that as an international student, there’s no guarantee of being able to live and work in the United States after graduation. It’s important to plan for the possibility that you will have to return to your home country and work there. However, with a degree from a top US university, you might qualify for the best opportunities in your own country. But for the most part, only the best US universities are internationally known. Another Plan B might be to work remotely for a US company from your own country. In the web development space, I’m seeing an increased demand for firms in high-cost areas, especially NYC, to work remotely with developers in lower-cost areas. Frequently they say they want to work with someone based in the USA. (There’s a huge mural painted on a skyscraper in downtown Detroit which says, “Outsource to Detroit”.) However, I’ve seen at least one firm be more flexible about only hiring US-based developers than they admit. Frequently, the concern is communication and quality, both of which obviously aren’t issues if you graduated from a top US university.</p>
<p>I didn’t discuss UC Berkeley, Georgia Tech, and UT Austin because I’m just not familiar with them.</p>
<p>@momofthreeboys Because it is a public university, one of the best. Please read my comment on my college fund again.</p>
<p>On other topics, does anyone happen to know something about Georgia Tech?</p>
<p>I’ve already started to get a clearer picture of each university, except for Gatech, which no one has mentioned.</p>
<p>Thus far, this is my list:
(1) - UC Berkeley
(2) - UT Austin/UMich
(3) - UIUC/Georgia Tech</p>
<p>Any thoughts?</p>
<p>The reason I asked is because you stated that CMU was too expensive. Michigan does not give financial aid to internationals and it’s expensive. If you eliminated CMU for that reason I did not understand why you still thought Michigan would be a viable option at $50,000 a year.</p>