UMich vs. UC Berkeley?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
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<p>“Also, a bit off track, I know both schools are public and therefore not “handholding”, aka you’re basically on your own. However, which one is generally more helpful in advising and guiding their students throughout college?”</p>

<p>I do not think either university is known for advising. I think both will have resources available for students, but they will not be apparent. You will have to be proactive and seek them out. In the domain of advising, major research universities, and this is not restricted only to public, but also to major private research universities, advising will be lacking.</p>

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<p>“Berkeley and UMich are pretty similar (tough academics, college town, ect.) but things at Berkeley seem more academically intense and the location is more gritty.”</p>

<p>The above statement would not be a ringing endoresement to attend Cal for the average 18 year old.</p>

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<p>I would like to bring one piece of information into this discussion.</p>

<p>My friend who lives in the Bay area told me last month she will not send her kids to UCB because most of her friends’ kids took 5 years to greduate. The reason was they could not register the classes they wanted before they were full. It’s a big problem talked often among Asian parents. </p>

<p>You might want to consider the financial impact of greduating one year later. It could be in the 6 figures.</p>

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<p>^^^Very good point.</p>

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<p>The 4 year graduation rates for both Umich and Cal are very close (~70%). So, dont mislead.</p>

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<p>It’s not misleading jason. California has been having a budget crunch and its schools are not as well funded as Michigan, since their endowment is far smaller. This could very well be a problem.</p>

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<p>I dont talk about financial crisis, I talk about 4 year graduation rates. The fact is both Cal and umich have the highest 4 year graduation rates among the public universities. Actually, I know most of Asian kids in Cal graduated in 4 years. Please see the link:
<a href=“http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/DashboardUnderGradGraduationRates.html[/url]”>http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/DashboardUnderGradGraduationRates.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>^^^That link is semi-worthless Jason. It is at least 5 years old. The reality of what might be going on in the past couple of years is not indicated by that chart.</p>

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<p>FYI: rjkofnovi</p>

<p>In 2011, the average time to graduate was 3.98 years, according to the campus’s undergraduate profile. This is a decrease from 2003, when the average time for freshmen to complete an undergraduate degree was 4.2 years, according data from the UC Office of the President.</p>

<p>[Berkeley</a> places ninth in World University Rankings - The Daily Californian](<a href=“http://www.dailycal.org/2012/10/03/berkeley-places-ninth-in-world-university-rankings/]Berkeley”>UC Berkeley places ninth among universities worldwide)</p>

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<p>Just trying to be as objective as possible. I don’t have any personal affiliation with either, though I have visited Berkeley before. </p>

<p>Since OP wants to go back to NE (didn’t see this part), UMich is better. I just assumed those interested in engineering/CS would want to go to Silicon Valley as a first choice. I’d recommend taking a second look though. </p>

<p>The impact of the financial crisis in the UC system has been exaggerated, but it’s really frustrating still. Few Californians now trust the state to manage the UC/CSU system well. Getting an ideal schedule is tough if you don’t meticulously plan everything out beforehand with backup classes, and classes are huge and you don’t get much attention. It’s definitely not as bad as at UMich, I imagine, but UMich is still kind of similar to Cal in this regard. On the other hand, you will almost definitely graduate in 4 years from Cal; it seems many who take longer do so voluntarily because of a double major or a master’s degree.</p>

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<p>I had also heard anecdotally that graduation is taking longer at the UC schools due to the huge budget crunch they are in, that allegedly got much worse this year. I don’t know about the numbers cited in the article by Jason, they seem very fishy to me. The article states:
“The percentage of the entering freshman class in 2004 that had graduated by 2010 was 91 percent . . . and the percentage of students who entered in 2004 and had graduated by 2008 was 69 percent.” </p>

<p>With just over 2/3 graduating in 4 (or 4.5) years and another 22% needing up to 6 years to graduate, it is hard to imagine how the average time to graduation would be under 4 years. I suppose it could work out if a lot of the 2/3 are graduating in 3 or 3.5 years, but that seems unlikely. In addition, by stating that 69% of the 2004 class graduated by 2008, that would include students who took 4.5 years to graduate (Dec. 2010). Like I said, these numbers look fishy.</p>

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<p>BTW, D is just finishing her sophomore year and is well on-target to graduate in 4 years at Michigan with dual majors of history and economics. So, whatever the situation at UCB, it is easily doable to graduate in 4 years from UM.</p>

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<p>Son was deliberating between Michigan and Berkeley… until today when he committed to Michigan. We spent four days at UC Berkeley and four days at Michigan last week to gather information. Berkeley admissions told us that they did research into their four-year graduation rate and determined that study abroad and dual majors are the most common reason for delayed graduation. They also said that students tell their parents that they can’t get required classes to graduate in four years, but their research showed that the class was available but not during the preferred times of 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. Berkeley is looking at classes which start at 8 a.m. for possible rescheduling because most students simply won’t register for those classes, even if the course is needed to graduate.</p>

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<p>Yeah for rondholm’s son! Good choice!</p>

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<p>I faced this exact choice in 1979, went to Michigan, and have followed both schools ever since. My thoughts:</p>

<p>Very similar kinds of schools: large, prestigious state universities with world-wide reputations as elite schools, based in great college towns. Price for OOS is similar at this point; although Berkeley has much higher cost of living.</p>

<p>UCB has a garden like campus with more exotic natural beauty. Hilly. Faces the bay. Redwoods on campus. California look.
UM has more classic college buildings (some are just incredible) and lots of trees that look fabulous in the autumn. Landscape is flat with some small hills. Classic Eastern college look. Verdict: Tie</p>

<p>UM does more for undergraduates. Living learning communities, honors program, resident college, undergrad. research opp. program, writing programs, mentorship. UCB doesn’t appear to have any or much of that. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UCB has an edge in the reputation department due to the Nobel prizes and Academy of Science memberships. In most areas it does slightly better but both are tops more perhaps than any schools other than Stanford and Harvard. But UCB has an edge over Ivy League schools too. UM is fully in that class and is highly respected in the professional world and academia. Verdict: UCB</p>

<p>Ann Arbor might be the best college town in the country. Pretty with all kinds of Victorian buildings, safe, fun, full of culture. Parks everywhere. Berkeley is also a great college town but gritty and unsafe in parts. The city of Berkeley has its own identity apart from the university (which you might prefer) and often the two clash. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>Berkeley is next to San Francisco. Ann Arbor is 40 minutes from Detroit. Verdict: UCB</p>

<p>Both are in beautiful states. People associate Michigan with auto plants but most of the state is rural. It boarders three great lakes and has more coastline than Florida. Northern California is lovely Northern California but the East Bay Area is overly congested. And this pushes right up against campus. Area around Ann Arbor is more rural and not congested.Verdict: Tie</p>

<p>UCB is more urban, UM more suburban. Verdict: Depends on your preferences. Verdict: Tie</p>

<p>Both are strong in sports but the UM sports tradition is much stronger. You might like this and you might not like it. For those who do, there’s nothing that beats it. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM has far more student housing and is in the middle of a major housing building endeavor. They pour hundreds of millions into this and have many classic dorms. UCB has a terrible shortage and apartments are kind of beat. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM has a medical school, one of the best in the world. That’s a big thing for a U not to have, in the case of UCB. But UCSF is across the bay. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM has a more vibrant alumni association and school identity. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM offers more practical majors for students: eg BA in Education or Public Policy. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UCB uses grading curves in the sciences and prides itself on having a competitive environment. Read their website, every fourth word is competitive. Maybe you’ll thrive in this. I find it tedious and stressful. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM is more folksy and friendly. The Midwestern values and politeness come through. I was there a few months ago and more than a few people walked me towards my destination after I asked for directions. I doubt this will happen at UCB; although Californians are more laid back and probably a little more fun. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM has incredible graduate social sciences degrees offered through the Rackham school. Fully funded joint majors. Probably the better school for social sciences. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM is a major player in computer science and played a big role in the creation of the Internet. But UCB, which Silicon Valley nearby, is legendary in this regard. Verdict: UCB</p>

<p>UM is in better financial shape, having privatized years ago. UCB hung on to the state U vision longer, which is admirable, but they suffered for it. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UCB has pleasant weather year round but it’s a bit monotonous. UM has four seasons, three of which are lovely. Autumn is amazing. Winter can be charming too but it’s too long. UM has grey skies in winter, not good for sufferers of SAD. UCB is very sunny. Verdict: UCB</p>

<p>UM has better museums. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>UM has more out of staters. Verdict: UM</p>

<p>So there you have it. All depends on you. I would be very tempted by the honors program. I don’t think UCB has one. That’s pretty cool, graduate of UM honors program. It’s an elite program within an elite school and likely intellectually stimulating. But you have to weigh all the factors as you value them. You may only care about two or three of the factors here and that will determine your choice.</p>

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<p>Nice comparison analysis seaslipper. Just one thing, Michigan touches four of the Great Lakes. :-)</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Computer Science: Berkeley #1, Michigan #13
Economics: Berkeley #5, Michigan #13
Applied Math: Berkeley#8, Michigan #15
Statistics: Berkeley #2, Michigan #12
Engineering: Berkeley #3, Michigan #7 </p>

<p>The difference is there and is not really negligible, IMO.</p>

<p>Berkeley’s 6-Year Graduation Rates:
[Common</a> Data Set](<a href=“http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/cds/index.html]Common”>Common Data Set | Office of Planning and Analysis)</p>

<p>2012-13: 91%
2011-12: 90%
2010-11: 91%
2009-10: 90%
2008-09: 89.6%</p>

<p>If budget cuts were affecting grad rates, don’t you think these numbers would be falling?</p>

<p>Michigan’s numbers:
<a href=“U-M Office of the VPIT-CIO | Office of the VPIT-CIO | University of Michigan”>Office of Budget and Planning;
2012-13: 90%
2011-12: 90%
2010-11: 90%
2009-10: 89%
2008-09: 88%</p>

<p>

Everyone is honors at Berkeley.</p>

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<p>"Computer Science: Berkeley #1, Michigan #13
Economics: Berkeley #5, Michigan #13
Applied Math: Berkeley#8, Michigan #15
Statistics: Berkeley #2, Michigan #12
Engineering: Berkeley #3, Michigan #7 </p>

<p>The difference is there and is not really negligible, IMO."</p>

<p>I agree UCB. However, the difference is not significant. Not enough IMHO to be the deciding factor in attending one school over the other.</p>

<p>Also, what is the four year graduation rate for Cal?</p>

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<p>“Everyone is honors at Berkeley.” And you can give everyone a participation trophy in soccer if you want to, but that just means the trophy has no meaning. Anyway, the admission credentials at UCB are virtually identical to UM. According to the CDS, the 25% ACT at UCB is 1 point lower than UM and the 75% is 1 point higher (27-33 UCB, 28-32 UM). Thus, while UCB chooses not to recognize its top 10% with honors, UM does. </p>

<p>Finally, on the four year graduation rate (you have to do the math), but four year grad rate at UM is slightly better 72.0% v. 70.9%. But that is for the 2010 class (in the case of UCB) and anecdotally the claim is that it is getting much harder to get classes now at UCB than in previous years. If that is true, it seems likely that soon the four year grad rate at UCB will be down in 60’s%.</p>

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<p>71% according to USNews. Michigan is 73%. Keep in mind Berkeley enrolls far more Pell Grant recipients…a lot likely work part-time.</p>