Umichigan?

College Search & Selection
41

<p>The arguments made here are kind of grasping on straws. How many students are in LSA honors or Ross? And more importantly, how many in those programs are in-state? (And would they have gone elsewhere if they were out-of-state students instead)</p>

<p>[‘U</a>’ sees record number of applications, decrease in yield | The Michigan Daily](<a href=“'U' sees record number of applications, decrease in yield”>'U' sees record number of applications, decrease in yield)</p>

<p>Michigan’s yield has been declining while JHU’s and Northwestern’s have been increasing (the 31% cited earlier is out dated, it’s now 37%):</p>

<p>[Record-breaking</a> class of 2015: Highest yield, most diverse : Johns Hopkins University – The Gazette](<a href=“http://gazette.jhu.edu/2011/06/06/record-breaking-class-of-2015-highest-yield-most-diverse/]Record-breaking”>Record-breaking class of 2015: Highest yield, most diverse : Gazette Archives)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2011/06/class-of-2015.html[/url]”>http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2011/06/class-of-2015.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I think this might be a function of UMich trying to compete for out-of-state students who may have more options. Ultimately, the yield will become very low. But this is a tradeoff for a more statistically accomplished student body. if you really wanted to compare apples to apples, you would have to compare michigan’s out of state yield to the yield of these private universities who recruit the vast majority of their student body nationally (except for stanford-35% of undergrads are from cali).</p>

42

<p>Personally, I believe UMich ross and LSA honors are pretty good. Engineering is alright, and LSA is well LSA. Here’s more objective data for comparison (UMich posters like to point out how Umich doesn’t superscore SAT scores. Here’s objective data that doesn’t superscore SAT scores). For ENGINEERING entering freshman in 2008 (last time UMich has data available):</p>

<p>UMich Engineering
SAT 25th-75th
Math Range: 680-770
Verbal Range: 590-770
Combined Range: 1290-1440
ACT 25th-75th
Math Range: 29-34
Composite Range: 28-32 </p>

<p>Johns Hopkins Engineering
SAT<br>
Math Range: 710-780
Verbal Range: 640-740
Combined Range: 1370-1500
ACT
Composite Range: 30-34</p>

<p>Northwestern Engineering
SAT
Math Range: 720-780
Verbal Range: 640-730
Combined Range: 2030-2200
ACT
Math Range: 30-34
Composite Range: 31-34 </p>

<p>Cornell Engineering
SAT Math Range: 720-790
Verbal Range: 640-730
Combined Range: 1380-1500
ACT
Math Range: 33-35
Composite Range: 31-34</p>

43

<p>Michigan is a great university and a top 20 university and 4th best American public school. It’s academically better reputed than Rice, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, and even Dartmouth. Student quality…I don’t know enough to comment on that.</p>

<p>Anyway, Post 42 in <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/412606-how-calculate-universities-peer-assessment-score-3.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/412606-how-calculate-universities-peer-assessment-score-3.html&lt;/a&gt;
is my source.</p>

44

<p>

</p>

<p>Fall 2009 Yield, Top-50 Ranked Public Universities</p>

<p>UNC-Chapel Hill 53.9%
Texas 50.9%
UVA 47.9%
U Washington 43.5%
UC Berkeley 41.4%
Illinois 41.2%
Michigan 40.6%
Wisconsin 39.9%
Georgia Tech 39.6%
UCLA 36.7%
William & Mary 34.4%
Penn State 31.2%
UCD 22.5%
UCSB 21.3%
UCSD 21.2%
UCI 20.7%</p>

<p>You guys are really grasping, pulling arguments out of your a** without the slightest regard for facts. Is that how they teach you to do it in your private schools: shoot from the hip, speak with confidence and swagger as if you know what you’re talking about even though you’re just b.s.-ing, and hope no one ever calls your bluff?</p>

45

<p>he didn’t say among all top state schools. how does it rank among the 50 state flagships? You’re ignoring Florida, SUNY, Colorado and other schools that are probably close to the listed schools in quality. </p>

<p>Regardless, I believe the argument he was making was the fact that Umich has a yield boosted by in-state students.</p>

46

<p>

</p>

<p>Well, in the first place, some of the schools you mention are nowhere near Michigan in quality. But have it your way. Let’s take the next closest tranche of public universities:</p>

<p>2009 Entering Class Yield, Public Universities Ranked #51-75:</p>

<p>Florida 57.8%
Texas A&M 53.2%
Georgia 49.0%
Ohio State 48.8%
Virginia Tech 36.0%
Maryland 35.4%
Rutgers 33.2%
Clemson 32.7%
Iowa 32.5%
Minnesota 31.8%
Purdue 31.0%
UConn 29.5%
Pitt 28.6%
Colorado School of Mines 19.5%
UC Santa Cruz 18.4%</p>

<p>OK, so 4 of those 15 have higher yields than Michigan. Most are not even close. And 2 of the 4, Florida and Georgia, were giving enormous merit awards during this period that made it almost costless for in-state residents to attend their public flagships. That will boost yield, as long as you can afford it. I’m not sure either state can afford it anymore, and my understanding is both programs are being scaled back.</p>

<p>But you also mentioned some other specific public universities, which you identified as “close” to Michigan in quality. I’m not in a position to comment on their quality directly, but US News certainly doesn’t see them as “close” to Michigan:</p>

<p>2009 Yield, Selected Publics</p>

<h1>86 U Colorado-Boulder 33.6%</h1>

<h1>79 SUNY College of Environmental Science 43.1%</h1>

<h1>86 SUNY Binghamton 21.9%</h1>

<h1>99 SUNY Stony Brook 24.6%</h1>

<p>Bottom line, the statement that Michigan’s yield is “very, very poor for a state university” is just dead wrong, and based on nothing but blind, ignorant prejudice against one of the nation’s finest public universities—and for that matter, one of the finest of any stripe.</p>

<p>Perhaps it’s time to stop making up your own facts.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Uh, right . . . But isn’t it interesting that despite having the HIGHEST percentage of OOS students of any public university ranked in the top 50, and one of the highest percentages of OOS students of any public university ranked in the top 75, Michigan nonetheless has a yield that ranks toward the high end of the spectrum? You have plenty of schools on this list that are 90% + in-state, with much lower yields. So I think if you’re being fair and open-minded about it, you’d have to find what Michigan does pretty darned impressive.</p>

<p>Or, you could continue to make up your own facts to justify your prejudice against it.</p>

47

<p>

</p>

<p>LS&A Honors enrolls about 500 students per year. That’s roughly the top 12-15% of the entering LS&A class, or about the same size as the entering class at Amherst, Williams, or Swarthmore. Except the stats of the LS&A Honors class are higher (minimum 32 ACT, versus middle 50% of 30-34 at Amherst and Williams, 29-33 at Swarthmore). Oh, and LS&A Honors students have access to a much broader and deeper curriculum, including opportunities to accelerate into graduate-level work in some of the top graduate departments in the world.</p>

<p>Ross enrolls about 400 per year in its 3-year BBA program. About 100 of them come in under the “preferred admission” program, which guarantees a place in the sophomore BBA class to top entering freshmen with an average ACT of 33, provided they meet minimum first-year course requirements. The rest come in through a highly competitive internal transfer process, in which only about 40% of internal transfers are admitted. That makes it slightly smaller than Penn’s Wharton undergrad class (about 600/year) or NYU Stern’s undergrad class (slightly <600), but bigger than MIT Sloan’s undergrad business program, with roughly comparable student credentials.</p>

<p>How many in-state and how many OOS? I’ve never seen figures on that, but my rough estimate would be that when I was in LS&A Honors—several decades ago, mind you—it was probably 2/3 OOS. I’d guess it’s at least that high if not higher now, because OOS students comprise a larger percentage of the student body than in my day, and because OOS admission to Michigan has gotten a lot more competitive, with the result that more entering OOS students are really high-stats kids.</p>

48

<p>I don’t know why you keep citing this “minimum 32 ACT” because the entering LSA honors class had an ACT range of 31-34 entering the last fall (<a href=“https://umich.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1945/~/applying-to-lsa-honors[/url]”>https://umich.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1945/~/applying-to-lsa-honors&lt;/a&gt;). So basically in line with Amherst and maybe slightly better than Northwestern and JHU (31-33). But then again, Northwestern and JHU have an entire student body have this range as opposed to a select few of Michigan. You’re trying to categorize Michigan as elite when only a very small subset of the students (only 14% of the entering class are LSA honors and Ross pre-admit) have stats comparable with the private schools you refer to. I do agree that LSA honors and Ross pre-admit are elite programs, however.</p>

49

<p>Before looking at yield rates for public universities, one should also consider the in-state : out-of-state ratio. At schools like Florida, TAMU, Georgia and OSU, 90%+ of the undergraduate student body are residents of the state, compared to 65% at Michigan. The yield rate for in-state students will always be significantly higher than the yield rate for OOS students. Furthermore, Michigan is, admittedly, not good at providing OOS students with financial support. However, Michigan’s yield rate is not an indication of quality. Cal’s yield rate is no higher than Michigan’s, and Cal has a significantly larger in-state student population.</p>

50

<p>Blah, you must understand that only 30% of students invited to apply to the honors college are admitted. There are many students enrolled in the college of LSA that met the academic criteria for consideration but were not admitted into the program for one reason or another. You should also not forget the college of Engineering, which enrolls 20% of the University’s undergraduate student population, also has a relatively gifted subset of students. Altogether, the number of “elite” students at Michigan is higher than 14%. It is in fact closer to 50%.</p>

51

<p>“There are many students enrolled in the college of LSA that met the academic criteria for consideration but were not admitted into the program for one reason or another.”</p>

<p>…or chose not to enroll. Not every top student in LSA wants to be in the honors program for numerous reasons. Remember it’s not a college, it’s basically just a curiculum that has certain requirements that might not appeal to every student.</p>

52

<p>Anyone discussing the education at Florida or Georgia and comparing it to the one that a student receives at Michigan (I don’t care what program the student is enrolled in) shows their complete ignorance of colleges, college education, academic standards, and just about everything else related. Alexandre makes some great points and people should read and pay attention to his posts. </p>

<p>Also, did I just see someone compare Villanova to Michigan? Villanova? </p>

<p>Please don’t post ‘help’ for people if you really have no idea what you are talking about.</p>

53

<p>

</p>

<p>The fanboys are out in force.</p>

54

<p>Did Blah say UMich engineering is “alright”? Where are we finding these people? The fact that UMich is being compared to Florida and Nova is very very silly. </p>

<p>Also, other than anal retentive high schoolers, who gives a damn about university yields? Legitimate question. How does that impact my degree? If the yield drops 5% this year or jumps 15%, does that impact my pool of potential employers? Are some of you actually saying that the quality of UMich actually rises or falls with the yield? Because some 17 year old may like the big city life of Northwestern over Ann Arbor, am I supposed to feel bad? Yep, I care about that much more than the fact that UMich produces the most Fulbright Scholars every year. Or that UMich just signed up to be 1 of 5 universities to work with Obama to increase manufacturing. Thank goodness we’re busying ourselves with important stuff!</p>

55

<p>you might as well delete this thread, alexandre. You’ve already deleted one post that was not supporting michigan.</p>

56

<p>Please delete the above post. :-)</p>

57

<p>Blah, I only delete posts that have deliberately incorrect information. Your posts are not entirely correct, but not intentionally so. But thank you for the classy insinuation, it is much appreciated.</p>

58

<p>Dont mean to knock on the “great” michigan but Villanova is more selective, and selects students with higher scores than Michigan, sorry but UofM isn’t better than Villanova.
Barrons ranks Villanova as a most competitive and Michigan as highly competitive,(nova is more competitive).
Villanova has lower admissions rates( approx 40% vs 50%).
Villanova has higher SAt/ACT scores. (29-31 vs 28-30)
I couldn’t find an engineering list, I hear both are pretty good.
Business week ranks Michigan biz #6 and Nova biz#7.
These schools are close in comparison if not Nova taking the cake…LaurenDog why would u act like that would be such a stupid comparison?
Michigan is a good PUBLIC university, but a lot of these private schools are going to be more prestigious.</p>

59

<p>Nobody except a UMich grad would suggest that Michigan undergrad is an elite program. They enroll 26,000 undergrads. If 60-70% are in state, that’s a ton of “elite” students for one midwestern state…however, certain programs like the engineering school and Ross are definitely elite programs. But as an overall undergrad institution, there are many low-ability students at UMich. It remains a safety for HYPSM applicants(thanks to rolling admissions, they admitted me in October) with 4.0/2300+</p>

<p>So 25% of UMich undergrads can’t break 600 on critical reading or writing, or hit a 28 on the ACT? That’s not elite.</p>

60

<p>Nova, are we talking selectivity or academics? The two are not the same. And even if they were, Villanova is not more selective than Michigan…not according to the schools’ respect common data sets:</p>

<p>Mid-50% SAT Range:
Michigan: 1230-1440
Villanova: 1230-1370</p>

<p>Mid 50% ACT range:
Michigan: 27-31
Villanova: 28-31</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.villanova.edu/enroll/assets/documents/CDS2010_2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.villanova.edu/enroll/assets/documents/CDS2010_2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Office of Budget and Planning”>Office of Budget and Planning;

<p>I am not going to compare the two schools academically because they are too different, but I did want to correct you on the selectivity claim you made. The two schools are roughly the same where selectivity is concerned.</p>