Hello. I was wanting to know if there is any importance of nationality when undergoing application to UMKC medical college. My daughter is planning on applying to this college and I want I know if being Indian is not helpful or it is. I speak to parents of other children who applied and they said it is difficult for Indian children.
Hi @IndiansAreBest, I’m not exactly sure what you mean but there are plenty of Americans of Indian origin in UMKC’s 6 year program if that’s what you mean by “Indians”. Judging by their numbers, I don’t think there is any systemic discrimination against their entry. If anything, their numbers at UMKC are far greater than their proportion of the general population. One thing I have noticed is that they had great high school GPAs and ACT/SAT scores although this could be due to the sheer number of Indian Americans applying to the program and the admissions office being able to have their pick of the litter.
That being said, I do feel that there is an undercurrent of nebulous resentment amongst the non-Indian population against them though, going off some of the nativist comments that I’ve heard, especially since the Presidential election. They’re Americans just like the rest of us and it’s irritating to hear them being referred to as “Indians” or other disgusting epithets behind their backs, as if they’re foreigners belonging to another tribe. It’s terrible and something that needs to be addressed.
So I don’t know what you mean by nationality (because I believe you do have to be a U.S. citizen or permanent resident in order to be eligible to apply), so I’m assuming you mean ethnic heritage. If so, being Asian American (w/one subset being Indian-American) will not in itself hurt/help you in terms of increased/decreased acceptance to UMKC’s BA/MD program.
Tangentially, with respect to affirmative action policies (which could very well change in the future in higher education admissions due to a current affirmative action case brought by Asian-Americans against Harvard, which will probably make its way up to the SCOTUS), Asian Americans (which includes Indian-Americans as a subset) generally do not benefit, as they are over-represented in the medical profession (19.8% of med school graduates) compared to their representation in the general U.S. population (5.6% of the U.S. population).
You may have heard the term “URM” in medical school admissions which stands for “underrepresented in medicine”: http://www.dartmouth.edu/prehealth/preparation/underrepresented.html, which mainly refers to race and ethnicity, although it can include disadvantaged background as defined here: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/medical-school-admissions-doctor/2012/07/02/what-it-means-to-be-a-disadvantaged-md-applicant.
The six-year BA/MD program at UMKC has always had, at least in the last 2 decades, a high percentage of Asian-Americans in the class, even higher than traditional 4 year medical schools. You can see my post here because this topic frequently gets brought up on this thread:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19796470#Comment_19796470. So this is not a recent phenomenon by a long shot.
With regards to UMKC itself, I would hardly say there is an undercurrent of racial resentment in the UMKC university student body among those who are white/black/Hispanic towards Asian-American students. I don’t believe this to be the case in the BA/MD student population either, when I was there. The BA/MD population at default will have higher GPAs and ACT/SAT scores compared to the regular undergraduate population. The filter to get into the UMKC BA/MD program is a lot tighter than that to get accepted to the regular undergraduate university. It isn’t because of the number of Asian-American students but just the fact that the program recruits from highly academically capable students at baseline (to even be eligible to apply to the program, you have to have at least a 24 ACT score/1160 SAT).
@IndiansAreBest - @Roentgen stated points are mostly valid and there is a quite a few messages in this regard in this thread. Though as an Asian Indian, I tend to disagree some of the points mentioned as one only knows who goes through this high expectation of Asian Indians comparatively than that of other races. I am not saying UMKC or any other institution is targeting Asian Indians. In fact I feel UMKC is more liberal in this aspect and admits quite a few Asian Indians into the program. But you can’t compare how a person from other race with low ACT/GPA called for interview and admitted but Asian Indians with high ACT/Perfect GPA is not even being called for an interview. Simple fact is lot of Indian Americans especially girls tend to seek MD degree for whatever reason so the competition among this group is very high. One professor posted last year in this group stating he feels that Asian Indians are expected to have high GPA/ACT/SAT comparatively with respect to other races in any selective program. This applies not only to MD program but any selective program/colleges including IVY leagues. Hence the recent 2nd law suit by Asian Americans (Harvard University where it scores very low personality traits for Asian Americans as part of their decision process). The other law suite happened few years back in CA, where an ex- UPenn admission officer admitted during her tenure at UPenn, that she felt indirectly the Asian Americans are discriminated in their admission process.
So don’t get caught into this kind of stuff which is not under your control. As I sated UMKC has lot of Indian American students. Yes, I would not be surprised more than 50% of the applicants are Asian Indians at UMKC BA/MD program. Especially for Regional or OOS category it will be more like 75% of the applicants are of Asian Indians, the competition is very tough among this group. Lot of Indian Americans from Chicago-land gets admitted to this program under regional category. One of our friends son was not even called for an interview this year (ACT 35; 14 AP courses, Perfect GPA, shadowing, etc.) so does it mean one has no chance? Nope. Luck also plays a role and how the admission officer sees your application.
As I stated my son is in the process of applying to UMKC this year, though he has a very similar record as his sister (Class of 2023) with Perfect ACT in his first attempt before entering 11th grade! Is that guaranteed even he will get an interview? Not at all! Every applicant is looked at from different perspective. We are keeping our fingers crossed and we know it’s going to be a long ride for us!
My advise is do your best and hope for the best. Good luck to each one who is applying to this program.
My apologies. I realize that my statement lacked clarity. I didn’t mean to suggest that blatant resentment and discrimination against Indian Americans exists at UMKC - the fact that the chancellor is Indian-American clearly refutes that idea. The school also has strict anti-discriminatory policies. More proof is that when last week an Indian student at UMKC (in this case an actual Indian who came recently from India) was shot and murdered, the authorities acted quickly to track down the suspect. The same goes for the case last year when 2 Indian-American engineers were shot and killed at a restaurant in the Kansas City metropolitan area in a suspected hate crime (incidentally, that happened maybe 10 minutes from where I grew up).
That being said, I have anecdotal evidence that suggests atavistic prejudices still exist. For instance, some of my preceptors told me about how great it was to have “an actual American kid for once”. One individual even appeared to have a reputation as a curmudgeon of sorts amongst the Indian students and I was dreading the rotation, but my experience was truly sublime. I was shown many procedures, routinely got treated to lunch, got to go home early (to study, of course) on many occasions. In contrast, apparently the Indian-Americans were barely spoken to. Other times I’ve seen/heard the derisive “Apu” term applied when referring to students of Indian origin (behind their backs). Other caucasians have told me that there are “way too many Indians at UMKC med”. My parents’ colleagues have also told me about how happy they are that an All American kid with a name they can actually pronounce is going into medicine for a change. There are too many instances to list them all.
My statement about resentment in my previous post was borne out of frustration at some comments passed at a BBQ I was at for the 4th that had been bothering me. A lot of my father’s friends are also surgeons and surgeons are well known for being A-holes. There were some comments made about some Indian physician at their workplace complaining about the paucity of vegetarian options at the cafeteria. This morphed into a discussion about how the Indian diet is incongruent with the American (especially Midwestern) diet and by extension, that Indian Americans couldn’t be real Americans. Someone stated that the 4th and BBQ go hand-in-hand and people who can’t do this don’t share our values and can’t really be an American. Frankly, the comments didn’t shock me since I’ve heard far worse but I found them irritating nonetheless, especially when considering that fact that those uttering them were very well educated and part of the upper middle class. It would’ve been far easier to understand had it come from some working class stiff. The sad truth is that ever since the Presidential election, such opinions are gaining traction and have even gained a modicum of acceptance.
Hey! What should my stats be to be competitive for UKMC BS/MD program?
American Indian
My GPA is 3.8 UW
PSAT was 1300
EC’s are good
Only a sophomore as well
Just want to know some stats to be competitive
Oops forgot, im out of state Illionis
@bearsfan21 Try to get medical related experience. Since you are a sophomore now you have good amount of time to put in lot of hours in Shadowing, possibly Medical Research if you are interested in Research, Attend Dr. Rubin’s mini Medical School in Naperville (This gives you a chance to evaluate whether you would be really interested in the Medical field.) You should do the Mini Medical this coming Jan-Feb Session and if that interests you then you can apply to be a Volunteer at Mini Medical School’s Summer/Winter programs. Find a volunteering position in the local hospital.
You will be coming under Regional category not out of state!
PSAT is not looked for admission criteria. Try to get good scores in ACT or SAT.
Good Luck.
@WGSK88 I’ll look forward in the shadowing/mini-med camps that you mentioned
I’m going to do some shadowing, senior home care, therapy shadowing and first aid team volunteering each for 100+ hours
Anything else I should look forward into?
And finally, does Regional benefit your chances of getting in compared to out of state?
@bearsfan21 Yes, regional has more seats (about 25 out of 100+ or so and it varies year by year.) Roughly about 20 to 25% of seats are for regional category. Out of State is more like 5 to 10%. Also regional tuition & fees is about $260K where as out of state is about $355K for all the 6 years!
Certainly try to improve your UW GPA as well. Make sure that you have good amount of rigor in your course work (AP classes, etc.).
@WGSK88 Thanks!
I’m trying to get my UW GPA up to 3.9
I’m taking 1 AP sophomore, 3-4 AP junior, and 4-5 AP senior
Asian American senior from Oklahoma
3.7 UW gpa, in IB Program
ACT 33
Medical experience: research internship - published paper, 500 hours in clinical shadowing, 300 hours volunteering at Red Cross, 100 hours hospital volunteering, 50 hours in musical therapy for nursing homes, 3 week Public Health Service project in Philippines, Advanced Medicine training camp
EC: varsity swimmer, youth symphony tuba player, debate and forensics, 4 honor societies, scholars bowl, Job at a tutoring center.
What are my chances and how can I make my application stronger?
@giraffe1202 From what I see you are a Filipino American where that many don’t apply from your race. So, chances are pretty good. I would still advise try improving your ACT. It looks like you have a very good medical related experience as well. Again very hard to say. Luck also plays a role! Since you are a Varsity swimmer that’s a very strong all round application. You will be under regional category. Good Luck.
Thanks for your reply. Glad to hear that not many Filipinos apply. Do you know if they divide regional and try to include students from all regional states or no? Also is it a red flag if my GPA Is quite low? Thanks.
@giraffe1202 - It’s more so with what is the rigor of courses you have taken than GPA itself. If your GPA is slightly low compared to the person who has taken relatively easy courses (not AP or Honors, etc.) then you are comparatively okay - I would assume! Yes, as far I understand its all 5 states (IL, OK, NE, KS and AR) considered as the same pool. Chicago-land being a bigger part of these based on number of applicants from this area they admit almost 1/3 or little more than that of the regional quota from the Chicago-land area.
@WGSK88 - thanks for your help!
FYI - Class of 2024 - 1500 applicants, 108 offered/accepted! Average ACT - 32 and Average Unweighted GPA - 3.82 of the accepted students.
@WGSK88
Do you know the split between in-state, OOS, and regional?
@ZealousScholar Nope.
For Indian Americans - based on the names about 33 were Indian Americans out of 108! Again this might not be the actual number. That’s a very good percentage of Indian Americans accepted into the program!
(Based on the indoctrination flier from one of our friends.)
Actually, 33 out of 108 Indian Americans is a terrible number.
At all the East Coast programs I interviewed at, 75%+ of the interviewees were typically Indian.
Granted, in the Midwest, you would probably expect a more Caucasian prominent mix. Still, the fact of the matter is that the majority of applicants to BSMD programs are Indian.
It’s quite shocking to me that UMKC’s program is only composed of 1/3 Indians, since I would expect it to be at least 1/2.