I want to talk about this USNWR ranking history graph…</p>
<p>It’s true that Michigan dropped from #8 in '88 to #25 in '89. Michigan ranked somewhere between #21 to #25 from 1990-2008. In 2009, Michigan dropped to #26 and then last year Michigan dropped to #29.</p>
<p>If you are concerned about that, you shouldn’t apply to UC-Berkeley either. UCB dropped from #5 in '88 to #24 in '89. It ranked between #13 to #27 from 1990-1999, then it managed to stay around #20-#22 since year 2000. Ask your counselor what happened to UCB.</p>
<p>Now let’s look at UNC, which according to your counselor is “gaining in reputation”. UNC dropped from #11 in '88 to #23 in '89, dropped out of the ranking in '93-'95, came back at #27 in '97… from there it ranked between #25-#29 from 1998-2009 before it dropped to #30 last year.</p>
<p>Perhaps your counselor needs to look at that graph again.</p>
<p>Blah, there has been no trolling on this thread. The OP has clearly stated that he wishes to major in Engineering and he has been woefully mislead by people around him. Let us examine what he has been told:</p>
<ol>
<li>UNC is more prestigious than Michigan internationally, especially in Asia</li>
<li>UNC has a much larger endowment than Michigan and is in better financial shape</li>
<li>UNC is better than Michigan in Engineering</li>
<li>UNC’s ranking in the USNWR is on an upward trend while Michigan’s is on a downward trend</li>
</ol>
<p>With the exception of the second portion of point 4, all that he has been told is completely false. If correcting all of those statements constitutes trolling, then what is the purpose of CC? I thought the point was to answer questions and advise students.</p>
<p>Finally, saying that Michigan has no academic weakness is not trolling, since every single discipline at the University is ranked among the best in the nation. It may be a tad conceited, but I do not see how that qualifies as trolling.</p>
<p>@Blah2009 I was saying UMich would be the better choice because of its strength in engineering compared to UNC. Here in NY, UNC and UMich have pretty equal reputations, with maybe a slight edge to UNC because of its difficulty of OOS admission. However, overall university prestige doesn’t really mean much in determining the quality of an engineering education (UIUC comes to mind).</p>
<p>thsfan, one place on the East Coast where Michigan should have the edge over UNC is in NYC/tri-state area. Michigan has a huge NYC/tri-state contingent (approximately 15% of the undergraduate student population). The list of prominent Michigan alums hailing from and residing in NYC is impressive.</p>
<p>I don’t know how helpful this is but for UNC’s most recent class…</p>
<p>58 from the “West”
47 from the “Southwest”
79 from the “Midwest”
29 from “New England”
246 from the “Mid-Atlantic”
284 from the “South” (excluding NC)</p>
<p>Now I just got those from looking at a rough picture/line drawing of the country so I’m not really sure which states are included in those divisions so I can’t control for population etc. but here’s a selected listing of states that have the most applicants to UNC. I’m guessing that Cali is underrepresented and Md, Ga, Va and a few others on the east coast are overrepresented. </p>
<p>578 applicants from California
1119 from Florida
939 from Maryland
953 from NJ
1122 from New York
626 from PA
562 from Texas
1044 from Virginia
379 from Ill
462 from Mass
747 from GA
345 from Conn
337 from SC</p>
<p>This may be a better indication of “prestige” by whether the state is over or underrepresented…</p>
<p>Edit: Though I’m sure a lot of things go into it - ex. quality of state schools, cost of schools etc.</p>
<p>Yes, but the huge numbers of Michigan grads in the tri-state area means everyone knows someone not so bright or seemingly undeserving who got in. The general impression is that it’s a huge school, albeit a good one, with all of the benefits and downsides associated with that.</p>
<p>thsfan, there is no evidence that suggests that the average NY/tri-state area student admitted into Michigan is any less “bright” than the average NY/tri-state area student admitted into UNC, and since there are far more of them attending Michigan, it is fair to say that Michigan is more recognized in that part of the country.</p>
<p>“and since there are far more of them attending Michigan, it is fair to say that Michigan is more recognized in that part of the country.”</p>
<p>I’m not sure it is fair to say that. Approximately 32% of M is OOS and ~18% of UNC is OSS. Understandably, there would be a higher student enrollment for any given region for Michigan vs. UNC.</p>
<p>Edit: For Fall 2010, Michigan had 6,300 Enrolled freshman compared with UNC’s 3,960. So Michigan has a higher percentage of OOS of a larger freshman class.</p>
<p>It’s true, Blah. Choosing one’s college should be that student’s decision, and he or she is most likely not going to be influenced by what anonymous posters or strangers or even their older friends might suggest.</p>
<p>That said, this particular thread was filled with some interesting factoids that weren’t exactly factual.</p>
<p>I am not a U Mich grad. Visited there, recently as the parent of a prospective student. I don’t have skin in this game as an alum. </p>
<p>It happens all the time on these threads. High school students hear something, think of it as fact and then repeat it. </p>
<p>The idea that the people discussing U Mich favorably on this thread are trolls is laughable. It doesn’t fit the trolling definition to refute bad information, particularly if the OP’s original analysis of the situation is based on heresay. Which it appeared to be and was corrected through additional posts by others. </p>
<p>I wish the best of the luck to the OP and hope that whatever school he lands at is one that meets his needs and helps him achieve his personal and academic goals. Whether it’s U Mich or UNC or some other school not even mentioned in this thread, there are a lot of amazing schools out there. In the end, I believe the school you go to should be one that you feel a connection to - can you see yourself there for 4 or more years? Will you be happy? </p>
<p>If you can’t, you should keep looking. </p>
<p>I get the impression that the OP has already made a decision that he wouldn’t be happy at U Mich and is using the other numbers (even if factually incorrect) to base his decision upon. If he is questioning the value of the degree based on perception of other people before even getting there, than it’s not likely he will be happy at U Mich.</p>
<p>Perhaps he can keep looking for other schools. And leave an open spot for someone who does value the worth of the degree.</p>
<p>Yes…it is a diploma factory at the undergrad level. Anyone can state an assertion and truly believe it in their mind. But it might not converge with actual public opinion.</p>
<p>Alexandre, that’s not the point. People have heard of both schools. It’s not a matter of name recognition. The simple fact that UNC is harder to get in to than Michigan from the tri-state area means that it might have a slight edge.</p>
<p>We’re really splitting hairs here though. They’re both well-respected public universities with national recognition. Michigan, however, is much better for OP’s interests. Where’s the argument?</p>
<p>Sorry for the double post, but there’s an important point to be made here. If OP doesn’t like Michigan for his/her own reasons, then there shouldn’t be pressure to apply there. It’s just not a good idea to compare it to UNC.</p>
<p>Neither of you can win this argument as no one has hard data to support any of the assertions made (except for the selectivity claim). You’d have to quantify UMich’s and UNCs “prestige” (more like knowing what the school is) through a current tri-state survey. There also lies the possibility a ton of people would know UNC simply due to its basketball dominance. Subjectively, this might play into their evaluation of how good academically the college is, even if completely irrelevant due simply to brand recognition.</p>
<p>The OP never indicated that he disliked Michigan at all.</p>
<p>“Hello, I will be applying for college in the upcoming fall/winter and the top two schools on my list are UNC-CH and Michigan (I live in MD so I’m OOS for both schools). Assuming (fingers crossed) I’m admitted to both I’m going to have a really hard time choosing which one to go to. I’ve visited both campuses and I absolutely adore both schools.”</p>
Au contraire, I got the distinct impression that the OP likes Michigan more. He said so in his original post:</p>
<p>“I’m under the impression that academically/prestige-wise UNC-CH is superior to Michigan, however I feel that Michigan will offer me a better social life… Will I be shooting myself in the foot by picking Michigan over UNC?”</p>
<p>"Come on, gang, don’t fight. You people focus so hard on the things wrong with Christmas that you’ve forgotten what’s so right about it. Don’t you see? This is the one time of year we’re s’posed to forget all the bad stuff, to stop worrying and being sad about the state of the world, and for just one day say, “Aw, the heck with it! Let’s sing and dance and bake cookies”</p>
<p>^ Heh. Let’s not steer this thread onto another topic.</p>
<p>The OP should apply to both and see where accepted and financial aid packages. If truly only interested in engineering, the OP should look to NC State or Virginia Tech or Maryland-College Park vs. UNC. But I say apply to UNC…the OP can major in something else if the price is right.</p>
<p>UNC’s engineering offers are meek at best and scattered across various STEM departments while Michigan is one of the best engineering schools in the world. I don’t see what the ruckus is all about on this thread.</p>