<p>My son has been accepted to both UNC Chapel Hill and NC State. He's torn. He plans to major in Physics or Biology, with hopes to pursue his Masters and Ph.D. in research. </p>
<p>Any advice?</p>
<p>Why exactly is he torn? To be perfectly honest I never really hear about anybody concerned about choosing unless they want to do engineering. Sure, sciences here aren’t easy but he’ll get a great degree. And if you’re in state, UNC is actually a little cheaper.</p>
<p>What does he like/not like about the schools?</p>
<p>How much will it cost your family/how much in loans from each school?</p>
<p>UNC is ranked first in ‘value’ by Kiplinger and Princeton Review this year. Even though most PhDs are free/low cost for the student, that is something to consider.</p>
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<p>I encourage him to visit both schools, possibly visit the departments he is interested (often hard to do at a big school). In terms of those majors, either school would be an excellent choice in those departments. UNC is stronger in the humanities and arts, State in engineering. Both have access to summer internships, faculty with respected connections so going to grad school out of either would not be an issue. This really will be a “fit” concern for him. UNC has higher rankings and “average SAT scores” but I don’t think your son would be at a loss for extremely bright peers in his major.</p>
<p>I see students transfer back and forth between the two for various reasons, none of the transfers I have seen are over educational quality.</p>
<p>Definitely UNC. Hands down. They meet 100% need whereas State meets 87% so it’ll likely end up more expensive unless he’s got merit aid. UNC is by far a better brand name and like jessi said, the only people i hear debating are those who think they might want to do engineering. Besides UNC is just pretty. It’s much less “bricky” than state and has kickass sports teams.</p>
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<p>Agreed. UNC is a much better university than NC State in almost every regard. Plus, most NC State students wish they got into UNC, so if he’s into both there’s no need to take a step down.</p>
<p>I go to UNC and the overall consensus consensus is that NC State is more of a safety school, and (like CBatch said) that most NC State students are UNC rejects. Engineering program excluded- that one is very well respected. This is just the popular opinion, personally I can’t say much about NCSU since I never really researched it.</p>
<p>That said, I’ll defend the UNC end: this is a great school with great and challenging academics. The campus life is amazing and the top-notch athletics can keep you entertained year-round. It all depends on what your son values. Biology is one of the most popular majors, and it is considered to be one of the top undergraduate programs (<a href=“http://education-portal.com/articles/Best_Colleges_for_a_Biology_Major_List_of_Schools.html[/url]”>http://education-portal.com/articles/Best_Colleges_for_a_Biology_Major_List_of_Schools.html</a>)</p>
<p>I don’t believe physics is as highly regarded, but it’s still a strong program. It’s UNC, after all!</p>
<p>“UNC is a much better university than NC State in almost every regard.” “…most NC State students are UNC rejects.” Those arrogant, elitist statements are very unbecoming. Get over yourselves and stop acting like Cavaliers and Dukies. UNC is more selective in admissions, but that doesn’t translate to overall academics vs. NC State, which is an excellent university. Carolina is excellent as well, but don’t confuse brand name cachet w/ the quality of your education. Somewhere there’s a Harvard grad working for an ECU grad.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone. I appreciate everyone taking their time to share an opinion.</p>
<p>He’s at UNC CH today, participating in “Shadow a Student” day. Then, a week later, he’ll be visiting NC State and UNC CH, as part of their ‘official’ tour the school programs. </p>
<p>Thank goodness we have a few weeks to decided and make the decision official.</p>
<p>If your son plans on working OOS, the national brand Carolina offers is something to consider.</p>
<p>UNC. I graduated from UNC last year and have firsthand experience with State… UNC is on a different level. While you can get a very good education at State, there is a lot more hand-holding in my opinion (in part because their grading system is a point system) and there isn’t nearly as much depth to the material you’re required to learn as there is at UNC (it’s a different story if you want to do engineering/veterinary stuff/textiles - but doesn’t sound like that’s the case here). He might have an easier time at State (i.e. a higher GPA), but you’re going to get a better overall education and have a better college experience as a Tarheel. Just my two cents!</p>
<p>kohoutek, I’m very sorry our comments offended you. I wasn’t trying to sound elitist, merely pointing out the popular opinion. However, I would be lying if I said UNC students regarded NCSU students as their academic equals. We might have a heated rivalry with Duke, but I challenge you to find one student that can honestly say UNC/Duke aren’t on the same playing field when it comes to academics (with Duke even surpassing UNC in some areas).</p>
<p>At the end of the day, yes, hard work does trump talent/name on a diploma but you can’t deny name recognition doesn’t put you in a much better position after graduating. NC State might be a decent school, but its good reputation does not extend past neighboring states and it is not up to par with UNC- not even close. Anyone from outside NC will say “NC State who?”. UNC, on the other hand, is well respected at the national level. That recognition is not unwarranted, either. It is respected because it offers the highest quality (public) education in NC. Period. You get ‘brand name’ cachet AND excellent education. Win win. I respect State, I do, but you can’t even argue for them cost wise. Unless you want an engineering degree, UNC is the better choice (academically). Personal preferences obviously factor in after that, so if UNC isn’t for you then it isn’t for you- but from an academic standpoint, it’s no contest.</p>
<p>At any rate, to the OP, I hope your son enjoyed “Shadow a Student” day and wish you luck choosing!</p>
<p>At the end of the day, yes, hard work does trump talent/name on a diploma but you can’t deny name recognition doesn’t put you in a much better position after graduating. UNC might be a decent school, but its good reputation does not extend past neighboring states and it is not up to par with Duke- not even close. Anyone from outside the South will say “UNC who?”. Duke, on the other hand, is well respected at the national level. That recognition is not unwarranted, either. It is respected because it offers the highest quality education in NC. Period. You get ‘brand name’ cachet AND excellent education. Win win. I respect UNC, I do. Unless you want to work in North Carolina, Duke is the better choice (academically). Personal preferences obviously factor in after that, so if Duke isn’t for you then it isn’t for you- but from an academic standpoint, it’s no contest.</p>
<p>keepittoyourself, why do you have to be so negative? Duke isn’t even an option here and substituting UNC for State is not actually true. UNC is very well respected nationally and there are alumni around the world. Yes, Duke has a better reputation nationally and is overally academically better. But there is not the same type of discrepancy. But that is not even remotely related to this post. You take every excuse you can get to talk down about UNC. I understand that you want to give the other side since you are not happy here, but this is unnecessary.</p>
<p>Lol, I actually laughed.</p>
<p>I do agree UNC is also much more respected in the south than in the rest of the US (as in, I’ve heard people say it’s better than some Ivies… I mean, I love this place and think it’s great, but that is a bit of a stretch). However, like jessimo pointed out, the discrepancy is not the same. Last I knew, Duke was ranked 10th nationally and UNC 29th. NC State is… um… [takes pause to actually check] tied with over ten schools for the prestigious 101th ranking.</p>
<p>BeyondSoccerMom – I am fond of UNC and NC State and next year will have a son at each school. Have you looked at the specific departments your son is interested in attending? With the rankings being thrown out on this thread, I thought it might be interesting to look at specific departments, so I just did a quick google of undergraduate physics rankings. The 2010 ranking came up; UNC was ranked #36, with a score of 3.4 and NC State was #52 with a rank of 3.1. If you look at all the schools tied at 3.3 and 3.2, UNC is only 3 spots above NC State in undergraduate physics. I’m not sure 3 points is worth all the NC State can’t compare to UNC banter on this thread. Your son should compare the departments of both schools and go where he feels more comfortable. He’ll get a great education at either place.</p>
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I disagree. We are originally from the northeast and people who pay attention to colleges have heard of UNC’s good reputation. We have friends and relatives who wish they had a state school like UNC. The first words out of a Connecticut friend’s mouth when we told him our son was going to UNC was “lucky you”. Now my experience is anecdotal, but I suspect yours is also.</p>
<p>tarheel14 – You may not be trying to sound elitist, but you do.</p>
<p>^^ you are completely right. I forgot myself while trying to prove a point/defend my school.</p>
<p>I guess it’s hard not to when trying to argue why one school is better than the other, though. Still, like I said originally, State can definitely compete in certain departments, but overall there is that discrepancy. One of them happens to be in biology/research so there is that to consider. Just all depends on what you want.</p>
<p>tarheel14 - 
It’s okay to love UNC and to be proud of the accomplishments that brought you there! I love your passion and your school spirit. My son feels the same way. </p>
<p>I’ve learned a lot going through the college process with my kids and also reading here on CC. People have a lot of different reasons for choosing the college they choose and it is important to respect other people’s choices. Don’t let a ranking tell you whether a school is good or not. You can certainly look at rankings, just don’t let them close your mind. There are definitely games schools play to boost their rankings, so the number isn’t always reflective of what’s inside the buildings. As a parent, I am just thrilled that my kids have great instate choices.</p>
<p>Since the OP is going into a hard science, I don’t think the rankings are an issue. What will count is how accessible are the professors and what undergraduate resources are available. Having been through the PhD application with my oldest child, it is not so much about where you went to undergrad in the sciences (as long as it is a solid, respected program) but more about what kind of research did you get into, what was your GPA and how well did you do on the GRE. The grad programs ask: did you conduct independent research, publish (yes, even at the undergraduate level), present at workshops, do summer internships? Rankings of tier one colleges (and both UNC and NCSU are tier one) won’t tell you much about that aspect. A visit to the department will answer these issues.</p>
<p>I have provided a link to UNC’s med school admission to support this notion. The program is competitive This link lists where the current first year class attended undergraduate school.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.med.unc.edu/admit/our-students/demographics/demographics#schools[/url]”>http://www.med.unc.edu/admit/our-students/demographics/demographics#schools</a></p>
<p>AS you can see there are students from UNC-G, UNC-C, Western Carolina, East Carolina, NCSU, App State as well as the Harvard/Yale admits. If you look at the the numbers from each of these schools, UNC’s med school is not top-heavy in Harvard grads. This, to me, supports that the name brand is not a major deal breaker in at least med school. The sciences follow a similar trend and, with a little more digging, I will find these stats for the interested reader.</p>
<p>Name brand does seem to matter more with business schools, industry and perhaps law school. However, I am not really sure about that.</p>
<p>Top medical schools pick from the top undergrads. Simple as that. UNC-CH is NOT a top medical school (#21). Reputation from undergrad comes into play when you are applying for Columbia, Yale, Harvard, etc… Ivy Leagues like to keep their students in Ivy Leagues lol. So all this non-sense about undergrad prestige doesn’t matter for medical school is FALSE. Find me an ECU grad that got accepted to Duke. It might have happened, but it’s not as prevalent as a Duke grad being accepted. Or a UNC grad being accepted. I know plenty of people from ECU that get accepted to UNC.</p>
<p>Now if we are talking any medical school, sure, prestige does not matter and a lot of medical schools accept students from very small liberal arts schools.</p>
<p>Another thing to consider is quality of education (which I don’t think you’ll have to worry about at UNC or NCS). One institution may prepare their students more for the MCAT leading to higher scores and better placement. Some institutions provide more quality research opportunities and these are usually universities with more money.</p>
<p>About UNC or NCS, I would just go with what you feel comfortable with. Both are great schools. UNC may be a little better on the eyes and natural sciences/art. NCS has engineering.</p>
<p>sorry it just makes me cringe when people honestly think school reputation has no affect on medical school admissions.</p>