<p>That's okay, SherBear. I thought I detected some sarcasm in your initial comment about giving my son his "props." </p>
<p>From the stats your S posted on the other thread, he looks strong enough that he may well be one of the deferrals who gets accepted in the spring, so tell him to keep his grades up. Who knows, our kids may be classmates by this time next year.</p>
<p>It would be hard to make this decision without visiting. "Feel" is different. One big reason for the different personality is that one is a college town and one a college in a large city. Seems like it will come down to what makes you comfortable.</p>
<p>
[quote]
nceph - everyone knows that some IS students are just as smart as the smartest OOS students, but the majority of them would not have been admitted had they been OOS. I mean of the 82% IS students, I'm sure that the top 18% equally compare to the 18% OOS students, but it's impossible to believe that the other 64% do....
[/quote]
I don't disagree with you, other than the "everyone knows" part. :)</p>
<p>nceph,
sorry for the tone carelessness. his props was not intended to be flippant, though i can see how you could've read it as such.
thanks for accepting my apology and for you encouragement about the deferral. my s has legacy status, which could help him.
i think he's resigned himself to emory though.
he read the deferral as a polite rejection.
we'll see how it goes.
his grades are high although i think he'll get a B in AP calculus BC, and maybe a B in ap Comparative Gov. He has an A in AP Lit, Econ, Physics, and Journalism.
Thanks again for your encouragement.
he has A's in all his other cour</p>
<p>SherBear</p>
<p>This post was from last spring and just so you know, I had also been PMed by another CCer asking about the the smallish Jewish population at UNC...who was also considering Emory so I decided to answer both posts with one answer. I was in NO way attempting to infer that Jewish=Northern, nor was I in any way even hinting at anti-Semitic remarks, feelings or beliefs..... the huge percentage of students from metro NYC and other parts of the NE is the only thing that gives Emory a more "northern" feel.</p>
<p>Our visit to Emory and the anecdotal information I mentioned from my S's former roommate are/were the basis for my comments. I think the schools are very different....not just the obvious physical differences of rolling hills and trees with Georgian red brick buildings versus a far more modern almost office park kind of feel with lots of concrete. </p>
<p>The designer handbag comment interestingly was also noted in the most current Princeton Review which also if I remember correctly said that Emory students looked like a J Crew or Ralph Lauren advertisement, for whatever that is worth.</p>
<p>What I take from comments like that is that there could be increased social pressure to wear the right clothes, carry the right bag, be in the right fraternity/sorority etc. I live in Dallas and I see what that looks like on the campus of SMU which is homogeneous, inclusive and very cliquey. It's not for everyone and VERY different than the far more open and accepting personality of UNC.</p>
<p>I've been posting on CC for over four years now and anyone who has ever read my posts know that my reason for still being around (now that my S is a senior) is to try to help cut through the public vs private sentiment that runs rampant on CC and to offer any insight I can based on our experience at UNC.</p>
<p>And yes, I do believe that you were reading into my comments looking for far more than was intended.</p>
<p>eadad,
i have read a number of your posts, which inspired my original comments of appreciation.
that you echo what i've heard (and read in Princeton Review and elsewhere) was also a point i'd hoped to make.
in other words, i think what you communicated has been and continues to be communicated here and elsewhere.
that i find it discomforting is not hard to understand.
that i find it noteworthy as i try and access with candor the strengths, weaknesses and differences amongst emory, unc, and other schools was my main point.
your being a knowledgable, fair and informative source makes it impossible for me to just brush off your remarks as antisemitic or ignorant on ANY level.
as i've said, i've appreciated what you've offered on myriad issues.
i know my missive had a shoot the messenger potential.
i really wanted an honest response from you andother posters.
i'm sorry for putting you--rather than the ideas you shared--on the defensive.
i would be crushed to learn that i've somehow discouraged you from wanting to contribute; that would be a major loss to us all.
thanks for your sincerity.</p>
<p>Sherbear: I looked at the thread on the 2012 decisions, and only ~15 in-state students bothered to post their information. UNC-CH receives about 20,000 applications every year; of those, about 11,000 are from out-of-state, and about 9,000 are from in-state. Of those from in-state, we currently have information on ~15 of them here on that acceptance thread. That doesn't tell you much. </p>
<p>While getting into UNC from out of state will definitely be more difficult, the "standards" for acceptance remain the same. It's just that there are so few spaces for the ~11,000 OOS who apply, UNC can afford to be picky. </p>
<p>While many more in-state students will obviously be accepted because of the ~82% law, many people in NC actually complain that their kids can't get into the flagship anymore, because it's become so competitive. The reason is because more and more top NC students are applying and ultimately choosing to attend; this makes it competitive, even for instate students. </p>
<p>You should also know that most NC students, especially those who are at the top of their class, aren't typically flocking to post here. </p>
<p>This has been mentioned numerous times but is obviously worth repeating. UNC-CH really does look at the whole application, not merely at SAT scores. That said, I assume you base your comments about "standards" on comparing the SAT scores of the few students who have posted here. ?? So, to help you see the real difference between SAT scores of accepted (and enrolled) students, you should probably take a look at the UNC factbook. This one outlines the profile of the entering 2007 freshmen class. </p>
<p>Obviously, a public university whose primary mission is to educate its residents will have a broader range of students and SAT scores; nevertheless, this information might help you to see that there are many more top instate students than all of the out-of-state students combined. Again, this is simply comparing SAT scores of the entering 2007 freshmen class:</p>
<p>In the 1400 range: 506 in-state students; 193 out of state
In the 1500 range: 148 in-state students; 48 out of state
Those who made a perfect 1600: 13 in-state students; only 1 out of state</p>
<p>You can check out the score ranges below 1400 on the link below. I'll just add (also on the link provided) the real differences in total scores. The average SAT score for in-state in Critical Reading was 643; for out-of-state, it was 662 (a 19 point difference). The average Math score for in-state was 653; for out-of-state, it was 672 (a 19 point difference). The average SAT Total (Critical Reading and Math) for in-state was 1296; for out-of-state, it was 1334. That's a 38 point difference. </p>
<p>Because there are approximately 2500 instate students in this class who made 1300 and below on the SAT (compared to ~380 out-of-state at 1300 and below), you can see that there are lots of high-scoring in-state students, those who scored at 1400 and above, for the total SAT point differential to be so small.</p>
<p>I hope that helps you some. Anywhere your son applies, where the acceptance rate hovers in the 18% range, will be a difficult admit. Again it's not that OOS are held to a "higher standard;" it's simply because there are so many more applications for far fewer spots. </p>
<p>Good luck to your son.</p>
<p>Office</a> of Institutional Research and Assessment - Admissions</p>
<p>janieblue,
thanks for your lengthy, engaged and thorough response.
i agree with all you post.
my son's stats did not put him in a competitive range for acceptance, particularly for ED.
i understand and respect that.</p>
<p>i've read other posts you've authored and enjoyed them.</p>
<p>in regards to 10, 20, 30 and 40 points in difference, those differentials can be pretty significant.
for example, my son scored a 730 on the SAT math section.
i believe he missed 2 and skipped one question.
had he got one more question right? one more question? his score would have been strongly implacted. (and by the way, he was below UNC's average in CR with only a 620, but above the out of state average in math)
a few points, just a few, can actually make a pretty big differerce.</p>
<p>at schools trying to raise their stats, schools that offer scholarship money for high scores, (like the u of miami), my s qualifies for money, but if he had another 10 points on his combined scores, he would have been eligible for an additional 12 K per year. that adds up.</p>
<p>UNC, as i said, is not perpetuating the situation occuring today, but the situation is frustrating for today's applicants--and their parents.</p>
<p>these stats, these scores and grades and other factors that get tallied and compared feed into a frenzy that was barely in existence in the late 1990s, when i was in education.
what's happening today, while it's NOT a product of UNC's policies, still affects UNC.<br>
today, kids are being prompted to submit double the applications they would have 5 years ago.<br>
my daughter, a senior at Northwestern, has said many times that she would not get in there today. she applied to UNC ea, Michigan, Northwestern ED, and Georgia. She went to the same high school as my son now attends. She did not have as high of grades, took a bit less rigorous of a course load, but she had 40 points higher on her SATs than he did. She played no sports, participated in no ECs. She was not as strong on paper as he is with one exception: she had higher SATs--not dramatically higher, just a bit more than the "38 point difference" you mention.
my d got into unc early action, michigan, georgia and northwestern.
now to see how much more m s has done in his high school years and to see him have fewer choices is hard. in 4 years, things are substantually more competitive.</p>
<p>all kids applying to university today are affected by the situation of their time. they are taking more leadership roles, performing more community service, taking more AP courses, getting extended time one standardized tests, taking test tutorials, applying to extra schools, and doing all they can to improve their chances. and the more the kids feel pressured to do, the more they have to do.
sigh.
you are an angel for listening.
thank you for all your patience and any other stats you can offer.
oh, and by the way. do you have access to info on how many deferred kids were offered admittance last year?
thanks</p>
<p>janieblue,
one more thing: while the competition atmosphere has increased, you'll notice from the stats you sent, that the actually percentiles have not changed over the course of the 2002-2007 range.
in 2002 35% of the kids that applied were accepted.
while the numbers increased with the years, the last year showed 34%.
interesting, eh?
thanks for the link!</p>
<p>SherBear</p>
<p>Many schools use "deferred status" as a way of dealing with legacies in the EA period who, while strong, may not be as strong as the overall EA pool. Because so many people are now attempting to "game" the system (please CCers this is NOT directed at you) by applying early, the EA pools often can be more self selecting and with that have a stronger overall pool of candidates to choose from.</p>
<p>Because OOS candidates are competing for roughly 650 spots in the class, often times legacies who may not be at the top of the EA pool but historically might be VERY competitive in the RD pool are selected to have their decision deferred by the ADCOM. This is a good thing and often results in a positive outcome in the Spring. That said, keeping grades up, staying in touch with the school, having the HS college counselor "work" the admissions reps....by this I mean re-selling your son to them and offering any and all updates to his resume are all strongly recommended.</p>
<p>There was a post on CC some time last year or so that found data and a quote from the Dean of Admissions that discussed the impact of legacy status for OOS students. As I recall, UNC does in fact place a good degree of importance on legacy status as a factor in admission.</p>
<p>It's late now but if I have time tomorrow I will try to find it in the CC archives. You might also go to Daily Tar Heel Archives as well as UNC archives on the UNC website and do a search for things regarding legacy status and admissions and see what you come up with.</p>
<p>If there's anything I could say about the in versus out of state rivalry we have going here, it wouldn't be to advise out of staters to recognize that they would be meeting inferior students from within North Carolina, it would be to let in staters know that they're going to meet plenty of people making hurtful statements and assumptions about them. No, I didn't make above a 1400, and I hate that I feel like I should feel sorry to some of the parents and students here, or that I should feel for even a second that this takes away from who I am as a person.</p>
<p>I tell you something, though, I worked day in and day out during my four high school years, and I certainly didn't do it so I could be judged against people from outside the state of North Carolina. I understand the frustration - some kids who didn't work as hard as your child may have been accepted, while your child was deferred or rejected. But then I fear that sometimes people go so far as to stereotype every in stater at UNC - that the pleasant in stater is viewed as the minority. This doesn't happen as much within the school, but when I read threads like this, it hurts my feelings. Plain, simply, and unnecessarily, because when I think of my application I certainly don't think it's anything to look down on. You all have good intentions, I know that, but be careful of exactly what you're saying here.</p>
<p>I feel like time and time again I defend the in state student at UNC, and I'm getting tired of it and some of the arrogance that I read. It makes me wonder if what I say has any impact and if me trying to help people out is really worth the effort when I don't find that I'm actually giving help, I'm just combating a few things: Duke > UNC, Out of Staters > In staters, medium sized public school < small LAC. This school is not inaccessible, unfriendly, overly liberal, too large, stupid, racist, or overly sports obsessed. This leads me to say again and again, visit the campus. You cannot tell the difference between an in and out of state student here.</p>
<p>To actually address the original question - they're both fabulous schools, but the two are both very different. I find myself grateful that I picked a public school (it wasn't something that was a major role in my decision but after deciding to come here I realized how much I like public schools), and especially one with a nice climate. I have gone out to brunch or lunch with two of my professors already and it was not a big deal, nor is it for many other people. I call three of my professors by their first names. I visited no one's office hours this semester and they all knew me by name. Not something I'd recommend, but I'm just making a point here. Econ Professor Byrns is famous for memorizing his students' names, even in his 420 person lectures (he'd print off their pictures by their PID numbers and somehow master the names within the first few weeks, I have to learn his strategy). But most schools will have large intro courses in the beginning, search through the forum to find eadad's story of his son's friend at U Penn if you want to know more.</p>
<p>OP, if you want to pick between the two, you must visit them. It's inadequate to make the decision unless you do this. If it's a financial problem, then purchase the videos of the tours online. People are extremely happy at UNC. I have a cousin and two friends at Emory, only one of them doesn't like it (but he was originally at Harvard and for financial reasons had to transfer to Emory, so his experience is tainted).</p>
<p>
[quote]
In the 1400 range: 506 in-state students; 193 out of state
In the 1500 range: 148 in-state students; 48 out of state
Those who made a perfect 1600: 13 in-state students; only 1 out of state
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually if you look at the averages for the 2007 freshman class the SAT scores are very similar. oos is slightly higher but only slightly. Also the "perfect 1600..." This was for accepted students not all students that applied. There were probably lots of oos 1600's but UNC looks at a whole lot more than that. Tons of kids are SAT/Grade grubbers who have nothing more to offer than that. Who wants a campus full of grinders? </p>
<p>The likely letter spoke about taking advantage of the opportunities of the college and the ability to contribute. </p>
<p>While I am on the subject, of instate/oos I will compare UNC to UVa. Lots of oos folks think that they have ivy stats while their instate counterparts are inferior by comparison. Since UVa is our flagship I can say that nobody instate gets in by being less than stellar. It is a dogfight to get into UVa. oos may be slightly higher but imho not by much and not all the time.</p>
<p>It seems clear to me that the situation is the same at UNC. They have a ton of instate kids applying (10,000) for about 3200 spots. With an average GPA of 4.19 all of the accepted students are extremely strong.</p>
<p>In Virginia this has caused a trickle down effect. Not everyone can get into UVa & Wm & Mary, so this causes the average SAT/GPA at Tech and other state schools to go up. A 3.8 is not going to get you into UVa, but you better have it to get into VTech, and increasingly into James Madison. Every top VA student applies to every strong instate school. </p>
<p>For example, the UNC EA oos admissions letter is in hand, but that does very little to provide confidence that an instate admissions letter from UVa will be sent. </p>
<p>Lets face it, these are top schools we are talking about, coupled with the 2008 baby boomlet, it is a jungle out there!</p>
<p>A lot of it has to do with money. Trying to come up with 30,40,50k every year, plus everything else is causing ppl to say, I need to stay instate so I have a few bucks left for things like...... books, shoes, etc.</p>
<p>to cloying or anyone made to feel hurt or even miffed:
UNC provides an awesome education!
people wouldn't be writing here if that weren't the case.
being in state DOES give you a tip, but it is a FAIR tip, one that's made clear in the mission of the school.
others get tips at other schools for things less fair or less clear.
(kids at UNC are very rarely given an advantage because of contributions made, for example.)
if i or anyone here has said or even implied that IS kids are getting to UNC without having to meet some tough benchmarks, than i apologize for us all.</p>
<p>an OOS student has to compete against more kids for fewer spots, so for that portion of the applicant pool, things are a bit tougher.
(things are tougher today than they were 4 years ago, three years ago, . . . as well).
what cloying is reminding us all is the way our own self-serving perspectives can and will hurt others, and we need to be mindful of those who are on this forum to help others, not to feel deprecated.</p>
<p>when i listened to cloying's sincere lament, i was reminded of an african american student's same words. he had been admitted to a very competitive school, and he was a stellar student, but his scores may not have been as high as some kids who were not admitted.
would it have been possible for his grandfather to have gone to Harvard?
things seem more or less fair depending on the lens you view them through.</p>
<p>at UVA, a legacy gets put through a different admissions process than a legacy does at UNC (OOS). and at UVA, more out of state students are admitted, making things tougher for kids from Virginia.
UNC's approach, to take care of their own, seems fair and admirable to me.</p>
<p>my s is OOS. he is a legacy, so he will be given a bit more consideration. is that fair? maybe not to some.
and my s lives in georgia, where if you've earned decent grades, tuition is waved. most kids don't have that advantage. is it fair?</p>
<p>as i've said earlier, things have gotten so much tighter, so much more competitive, that these dialogues can lose sight of the actual prize.
and i'm an adult!
i can only imagine how much more intense this all is to the hard-working, AP-laden, high achieving, nail-biting student.
some wonderful college counselors (like the one from U of C's Lab School) have thrown in the towel this year. just thrown up their hands in response to the way this process has turned into such a business, where those with resources can keep throwing money on the process, can keep pushing their kids and hiring outside help t meet the competitive nature that they themselves have been complicate in.
and i'm probably one of those parents to some degree.
when you see that from 2002 to 2006 UNC had an increase of about 3 thousand applicants but that they still accepted between 34 and 35 percent of them, you can see that the fear of not getting where you want to go is not based on the number of places available.<br>
what has made things go a bit crazy is the media and technology. we hear there's not enough room, we hedge our bets by applying to twice as many schools--something easy to do with the common app (technology), and faced with all of these strong applicants, the schools can afford to get pickier, and the cycle continues and the circle gets bigger.
most kids that are juniors or seniors at a competitive school have heard that they would probably not be admitted if they were applying today.
it may or may not be true, but the idea is being communicated.
at parents weekend this fall at Brown, parents heard how much tougher things have gotten, and they were actually told that 25% of their kids would probably not be admitted today (meaning that fall).
my daughter at Northwestern believes she would not get into her own school today.
what is actual and what is perceived to be actual start to meld.
and people like Cloying, a strong student willing to help others, has to listen to how she might not be good enough on some level--and from us? the ones she's trying to help?
i'm so sorry, cloying!
as we listen to cloying, we need to remember that the feelings she has expressed are similar to how all the kids who get deferred or denied feel.
kids are feeling like they are defined by their scores, or by where they get into and things are just a bit too close to the skin.
for my part, i know i'm guilty.
it hurts to see your kid hurt.
but that doesn't make it okay to callously hurt others.</p>
<p>thanks to you all for listening!!!</p>
<p>
[quote]
This was for accepted students not all students that applied. There were probably lots of oos 1600's but UNC looks at a whole lot more than that. Tons of kids are SAT/Grade grubbers who have nothing more to offer than that. Who wants a campus full of grinders?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>vistany: I did point out when I quoted those numbers, that they were for "accepted and enrolled" students in the class of 2007, not just those who applied.
Also, your comment that there were probably "lots of oos 1600's" who applied, but who didn't enroll, would also obviously apply to in-state students as well.</p>
<p>I agree with your statement that "UNC looks at a whole lot more than that" (SAT scores), and I also stated that. Sherbear's comment, however, was based on the few students who reported their stats here. I also suggest, just looking at those stats, that she take a look at some of the comparatively lower in-state SAT scores posted here and what else these particular students chose to tell us about themselves. I suspect what they will bring to the campus community will be far richer than any (high) SAT score.</p>
<p>Sherbear: I'm sorry; I only just now saw your response to my post (on page 2). </p>
<p>I agree with the growing competitive nature of college applications today. No argument there. Most (instate) adults who graduated from UNC-CH years ago, will now tell you that they would have difficulty getting in today with that same application. This competitive atmosphere, of course, is true for everyone who is applying.</p>
<p>My post was mainly meant to respond to your statement that "the other 80+% of unc's population did not have to achieve that same high standard." That "other 80%+ of unc's population" you speak of are actual students and residents of the state of NC. They are smart, interesting, and very capable students, with rich and varied backgrounds, who contribute greatly to UNC's campus (and whose parents contribute greatly to the UNC system via their taxes!). Your son is a legacy, so I would hope someone in your family also understands this.</p>
<p>I will point out again, though, that UNC looks at much more than SAT scores. The fact that your son made a 730 on the SAT math (though only missed 2 and skipped one), well, that's neither here nor there. That would be true for everyone who took his version of the Math SAT. He wasn't singled out and treated differently. And, as pointed out earlier, a deferral for your son, does not mean rejection. </p>
<p>As an aside, I have a hard time squaring your comments (upset for your son), when he has already been accepted to Emory (one of his top choices) with a scholarship. While you can lament the state of college admissions in today's world, you really have little reason to feel sorry for your son. I expect he will do just fine. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
at UVA, a legacy gets put through a different admissions process than a legacy does at UNC (OOS). and at UVA, more out of state students are admitted, making things tougher for kids from Virginia.
UNC's approach, to take care of their own, seems fair and admirable to me.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>--> You are preaching to the choir! The combination of 32% oos along with instate status for legacy really bothers UVa applicants.</p>
<p>"Look at how UNC does it" is a common refrain (laced with envy) amongst folks from VA.</p>
<p>This is from UNC's website, which reflects what admissions looks for in an applicant:</p>
<p>
[quote]
What makes a competitive candidate for admission?</p>
<p>We aim to build a talented and diverse body of students who display strong academic performance and intellectual curiosity. We receive freshman applications from roughly 20,000 well-qualified students from all parts of North Carolina, the nation, and the world. These students come from various ethnic, religious, geographical and socioeconomic backgrounds. From this large group of applicants, we choose a small number of the most competitive students, with an eye towards enrolling a class of roughly 3,900. </p>
<p>Our admissions process is competitive, but we strive to make it fair and humane. We dont use formulas or cutoffs or thresholds; no one is automatically admitted or denied because of a single number. Instead, we read each application thoroughly, one by one. When we read yours, well try to understand you as fully as we can, both as a student and as a person, and within both your high school and our applicant pool.
We understand that students travel many different roads to get to Carolina, and we celebrate the variety of interests, backgrounds, and aspirations that they bring with them. We know that not every talented student needs to be talented in exactly the same way.</p>
<p>At the same time, its fair to say that we seek excellence. We focus first on academic excellence, using a variety of informationcourses, grades, test scores, recommendations, essaysto help us assess performance and potential. We pay particular attention to the rigor of each candidates course of study. Competitive candidates typically exceed our minimum course requirements (see below), and most take exceptionally tough academic programs -- often the most difficult course of study available in their schools. Because new students at Carolina must take placement exams in math and foreign language, we strongly recommend advanced study of those subjects right through to the final year of high school.</p>
<p>Beyond academics, we seek excellence in other areas: in the arts; in athletics; in leadership, service, citizenship, and character. This list isnt exhaustive or prescriptive; our candidates do things weve hardly imagined, and were more than happy to be surprised. When we read your application, well be interested in what you've done and what you care aboutthose things that make you the unique person you are.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I may as well add this, too (from the UNC website):</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is it harder to be admitted as an out-of-state student?</p>
<p>As mandated by the University of North Carolina General Administration, 82 percent of each freshman class must be comprised of residents of North Carolina. For this reason, the number of available admission spots for out-of-state students is significantly smaller. Additionally, we receive more applications from students outside of the state.
In recent years, approximately 20,000 students have applied for freshmen admission at Carolina. Almost 11,000 of those students were considered out-of-state for admission purposes. Approximately 2,400 those students received admission offers. The remaining 9,000 applicants were North Carolina residents. Usually about 4,500 of those students are admitted. These admission offers are targeted at yielding a freshman class of 3,900.</p>
<p>There are no additional requirements for out-of-state students; we use the same process to evaluate both in-state and out-of-state students. However, because we are limited in the number we may admit from out of state and because we receive applications from very well-qualified students throughout the nation and the world, the competition for out-of-state students is extremely strong.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>janieblue,
my son's emory scholarship, should he get accepted there, is a courtesy one based on my husband's affiliation.</p>
<p>just so that you understand me, i don't see SATs or whatever numbers as the BE-all.
my son's strengths, his character, his contributions to his school on myriad levels--these are the thing for which he earns plaudits.</p>
<p>and as you've read, he is the second of our children to apply to UNC in the past 4 years.
my daughter's CV was less impressive than my son's--with the exception of her SATs, which were at 1400, as opposed to my son's of 750.
his course work had more rigor, his marks and class ranking were higher, he played varsity sports, student government, academic team--and the list goes on. Suffice it to say that while i think my daughter's amazing, she did not earn the respect of her teachers, coaches, and classmates that my son has enjoyed--and she did not hold down a part time job her sophomore and junior years, either.
so if i think that things have gotten tighter and if i think test scores for the EA pool played a major role, i do have a basis for my thoughts.</p>
<p>all that aside, half of our family lives in NC, and most of my nieces and nephews attended UNC. I think they are amazing kids on many levels.</p>
<p>i don't think you and i are disagreeing here. are we?
parents don't like to watch there kids get their feelings hurt.
it was hard to watch my son, who saw what his sister did, get deferred.
but when my daughter applied, kids were not applying to 8, 10, even 12 schools like they are now.
so thanks for the information.
and thanks for your understanding.
UNC is a great and beautiful school.
Those who live in and pay taxes to NC deserve the best chances of admittance. even with the better chances, it's no small feat to get into UNC instate these days either.</p>
<p>i forgot to mention that my daughter was accepted to UNC EA</p>