UNC, UVA, and U of Texas

College Search & Selection
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FWIW my daughter never lived in on campus housing at UNC. She lived in a private dorm right outside of campus that was closer than the other freshman dorms, and then in subsequent years she lived in apartment/sorority/house. Not living on campus was a choice, not a necessity due to housing shortages.

The thing that bugs me about freshman housing places like UF, FSU and UT is the frantic urgency of having to mark your place in line before even getting an acceptance and then the stress the kid has on where they are in the housing line/where they will get a spot, etc. Unless you have a very chill kid who is content with wherever they land.

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Itā€™s 18% as I mentioned up thread. 82% of students are in-state as mandated by the state government and 18% are OOS. This goes for all publics in NC. Up to but not over 18% can be OOS and at UNC-CH it is definitely 18% because it is such a highly sought after school. At a school like UNC-Greensboro it may not reach that cut-off and might be a higher percentage in-state.

Other than having more OOS kids UVA and UNC are very similar. I think they are each their closest peers not counting the other in-state schools. Both are big flagships in smaller charming college towns where everything revolves around the university. Austin has lots of other stuff going on that doesnā€™t have anything to do with UT. UVA and UNC are usually both on the top 10 or top 20 public universities lists. I have seen UNC as high as #2.

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UT is moving to the SEC for sports

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This troubled me enough to tell my son that he could apply anywhere he wanted, but he could not apply to UT-Austin.

https://www.utexas.edu/campus-carry

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I grew up in Austin and have a grad degree from UVa, no experience with UNC. All will be tough admits OOS, with legacy a big factor for UVa and UNC. All will have strong poli sci programs, so unless there is a particular professor or subfield of interest, I think the academics are a wash. For a student who wants an urban experience, I think UT might be the choice. Charlottesville and Chapel Hill are great college towns, but not what I would think of as ā€œurban.ā€

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I know the legislative cap is 18% but undergrad enrollment is always lower than that. According to the 2020ā€“2021 common data set it was 14%. My recollection was that it was 12% in an earlier year but canā€™t remember which one or where I read it. So 14% then. It is still functionally even lower than the listed number however because every single athlete that is from outside of North Carolina counts against the cap.

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In 2019 it was 17.8% and in 2020 it was 16.4%. The cap only applies to freshmen and not to transfer students.

My D majored in the sciences, where UNC is exceptionally strong (this does not mean UVA is not). Itā€™s possible that UVA has a stronger business school, but by no means is UNC slacking. To me, they are peer schools with different vibes.

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Wonder why those numbers differ from the common data set? 2019 CDS F1 says 14% first time freshman, 14% undergrad enrolled in Fall 2019. Maybe your numbers include graduate students?

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I wondered the same LOL. I just found those numbers but forgot where!

Itā€™s quite possible that there was a year that OOS enrollment was 12%, but I donā€™t think thatā€™s the norm at all.

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The OOS acceptance rate for UNC last year was 8 percent and that includes legacy and Recruited athletes. Itā€™s highly unlikely one student would get into all three of these schools. UVA also has become very very difficult OOS over the last two cycles.

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I consider these schools to be academic peers. I know students who have had great experiences at all three.

If they are equally affordable and all have the academic programs you want Iā€™d try to visit the three and choose the one that feels right to YOU.

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I think yā€™all are reading the data wrong. Hereā€™s the profile for the 2021 first years: https://admissions.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1130/2022/09/2021-Class-Profile.pdf

It says:

This fall, Carolina welcomed 5,630 students as members of the entering class of 2021.

This includes 4,688 first-year and 942 transfer students ready to grow, learn, and make each other better. Students were selected from 57,261 total applicants. This class includes 4,363 students from North Carolina and 1,267 out-of-state students who hail from:

95 countries

45 states
and Washington D.C.

94 N.C. counties

36%are from rural counties

If you do the math on that I believe itā€™s actually 22% from OOS and 77% from in-state. Not exactly sure how they managed that, but typically UNC does have around 18% OOS. I think they have to pay a penalty if they go over 18% so maybe they had to do that. UNC-Chapel Hill is very desirable and they want to reach that cap to get that OOS tuition and more $$. Thereā€™s no reason that they would not have at least 18% of students full pay OOS if they can swing it. More $$.

You can see the other class profiles here and do the math yourself on OOS students:
2020
2019
2018

Iā€™m not sure why they didnā€™t list the breakdown of in-state vs OOS for 2022, but that profile is here.

I should amend my earlier statement. Last year the legislature did raise the 18% cap to 25% for the UNC system HBCUs. North Carolina has a lot of HBCUs and some of them are pretty desirable like NCA&T.

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Iā€™m referencing the common data set for UNC which is the official form which reports the number of in state and OOS students for the freshman class. The 2019-2020 percent of both OOS entering freshmen and total undergrad is 14%. This is an official form promulgated by UNC as well as many other colleges and is available on their website. You seem to be referencing a press release which combines entering freshman and transfers, (who cannot by definition be entering freshmen).

Look at F1. https://oira.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/297/2020/12/CDS_2019-2020_20201201.pdf

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Iā€™ll add that one consequence of the last point is noticeably larger courses at UT Austin. You will of course find large lecture courses at all three universities, especially in a popular department like political science, but UT Austin has twice as many courses with 50+ students as UNC Chapel Hill.

Iā€™ll also point out, since I donā€™t think itā€™s been mentioned yet, that UNC Chapel Hill offers cross-registration with Duke, which (like Carolina) is quite strong in poli sci and public policy. A bus runs between the two campuses every 30 minutes, making it relatively simple to get from one campus to the other.

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Curious - why these three schools. In addition to the environments, UT has more than double the undergrad population.

To me a school like NC State, Pitt, Delaware or UCONN would be more like schools to UVA, UNC.

What is the goal with a Poli Sci degree?

Iā€™m sure this is a ā€˜rankā€™ thing but a rank doesnā€™t serve you four years, day after day.

I would think the student who may prefers UNC or UVAā€¦might but perhaps wouldnā€™tā€¦enjoy UT. Or vice versaā€¦that UT student might prefer a UMN over the other two, forgetting weather. Or an Ohio State.

I donā€™t think too many get into these three. One is a nice feat as you read stories about getting in at Ivies, but not at UNC, etc. my daughter was denied at UNC but in at UF, UGA Honors, U of SC Honors, W&L - so I would certainly not ā€˜assumeā€™ an in there.

But itā€™s why questions like this only have one proper answer IMHO - go visit !!

You are spending hundreds of thousands over four years plus timeā€¦day after day and a rank or pedigree likely doesnā€™t make up for this (especially the time part).

So no answer here can suffice. My daughter re arranged her list at some schools we visited b4 apps, assuming sheā€™d apply but after visits removing - Duke,Tulane, wake Forest, UVA, Elon and JMU and some we didnā€™t visit til after she applied - Denver, Miami Ohio, that had she visited b4 she applied would also not have applied etc.

So this isnā€™t a question for a forum imho. A fun question and I like to read the responses but one where responses should have zero impact.

Good luck. Let us know where the student gets admitted.

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@PL3 oh yes! Iā€™ve got a kid at an SEC school now. OU and UT in Big12 until July 1, 2025 tho (perhaps earlier). Big12 or SEC, Texas has amazing athletics, if a student is into sports.

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FWIW the CDS asks for

Percent who are from out of state
(exclude international/nonresident aliens from the numerator and denominator)

And that number is listed on the CDS is 16%

But excluding international/nonresident aliens ā‰  non-in-state numbers listed on the class profiles.

So 18% seems a reasonable number for first years who are not in-state if you also add those in.

The latest CDS for UNC-CH is https://oira.unc.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/297/2022/07/CDS_2021-22_20220705.pdf

BTW the CDS is no more official than the class profiles on UNCā€™s website. The CDS is not mandatory.

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Agree :100:%. They are all great schools! Plenty of happy kids at each one.

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All of these campuses will have amazing opportunities for a student who engages in their community and major. These are very different campuses and day to day living experiences, but classroom experiences should all be excellent. If accepted to all three, look at the classes, options, and the class sizes in the majors of interests. Definitely go visit.

UT is the most urban. Has the potential student visited? The campus is huge. The tour we did pre-Covid was when we were when in town for a conference. The campus was overwhelming, but lots of pretty places. It may be in a different location now, but admissions was on the edge of campus and definitely made it less appealing to my D when we showed up for the info session and tour. My theory was that they were being clear ā€œwe are an unapologetically urban campus.ā€ Remember to budget for travel- This would also be a flight every time coming and going, so add that to the cost. Off campus housing and safety getting to and from campus would be my biggest concern at UT depending on housing availability.

Charlottesville is the opposite of Austin in many ways. It has never felt urban to me, just a bigger, historic town. No one who can read a map is going to UVA for proximity to DC. It is a two hour plus train ride. Do a semester or summer in DC from any college or just go there for college if that is an interest. The train does make it easy to get back to NJ- that is a huge plus, believe me.

UNC is a happy medium between the two perhaps. The state capital is 30 minutes away if they are interested in policy, but there are plenty of policy internships on campus. Chapel Hill is quaint, but does not have the scenery of the area around Charlottesville, but for urban, you have Durham and Raleigh. The airport should have a good number of flights towards NJ making things more manageable during the holidays and breaks.

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Another thing to consider is the ability to get classes. All three of these are public Uā€™s so they may all have this issue but there are complaints every year from parents of freshman & sophomore students at UNC about getting classes they need (mostly the gen ed requirements). I know my daughter struggled some with this and had to get creative. Once they are admitted into their majors, it works itself out but I know there are frustrations in those early semesters.

Also worth looking into is the process for getting admitted to the desired major. There are several majors at UNC that require a separate application process during sophomore year. The business school there is notoriously hard to get into. Not sure how competitive the poly sci major is.

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