Unconventional PhD student - need advice

Graduate School
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>First of all, glad I found this place. I've been lurking and found lots of great info, so thanks to all for sharing.</p>

<p>I need advice. My situation is, I am currently in my late thirties (single female, no dependents, intend to stay that way) and am gainfully employed but am thinking ahead to a possible second career in academia.</p>

<p>Here is my background:
BS, Mech Eng & Public Policy from CMU '94 (GPA 2.8, low I know...didn't really like my major, too immature to apply myself correctly...lots of reasons but it was a long time ago, and it was a tough school)
MBA from Pepperdine '01 (GPA 3.85)</p>

<p>Gainfully employed for 15+ years with two Fortune 100 companies, currently earning a good salary (low six figures) with a company I have been with for 10 years. I like my job, but its not my passion.</p>

<p>My passion has been travel and learning about different cultures. I am thinking about a possible second career in academia in Anthropology, but here are the caveats:
Financial: I want to continue to work for 8-10 years to pay off my mortgage (modest 2 bedroom condo) and continue to build my retirement nest egg. I wouldn't touch this until I was 65 but want to build it to a point where I can comfortably plan to take a pay cut.</p>

<p>My thinking is this:
I don't have any background in anthropology so I'll need to build one over the next few years. I am planning to take the GRE this fall just to see where I am, its been awhile since I took a standardized test but I have always tested well. I will also take a few classes at the local community college just to explore the subject further.</p>

<p>In about 4-5 years, I would like to start an MA in Anthropology in the local Cal State system (I've looked into this, with a few prereqs & the GRE I would qualify for admission). Part time, I should have complete in 4-5 years at a leisurely pace. This would make up for my lack of background in Anthropology and also allow me to improve on the low undergrad GPA.</p>

<p>At that point, I should be paid off on my mortgage and have no other debts.<br>
So in about 8-10 years, I would apply to PhD programs (I would be about 45 or 47 years old at this point). </p>

<p>My goals for this second career would be:
Plan A: Career in academia (Ideally I would like a tenure track but I realize that may not be possible, so non-tenure track would be a fine plan B, I would just like to be part of the world of teaching & continue to read/explore/participate in an area that I have a passion for)
Plan C (at my age, I would need a plan C...I realize both plans A & B may be a little tough): Back to the working world, possibly looking to combine the degree in Anthropology with the MBA for consulting/market research/project management etc. Since my mortgage would be paid, I really wouldn't need to earn much to live a modest lifestyle, which I'm fine with. I know this might be tough at age ~ 55, but I'm confident I can manage.</p>

<p>The master's I could self fund, so that's not a problem. For the PhD however, I would need some level of funding in order to support myself through those years. With my housing costs covered, a very modest stipend would suffice.</p>

<p>I'm hoping to get some thoughts/advice on the overall plan.</p>

<p>Also - just a question for those of you in grad programs - how would you feel with a 50ish year old as a peer? Should I expect any different treatment due to my age?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance, sorry the post was so long but I had a lot to explain :)</p>

2

<p>I am glad to see that life doesn’t end after 30 and people make life and career decisions that may end up not contributing to overall stability and income. There is an older lady in the graduate program at my institution. I know for a fact that she doesn’t get treated differently by the individuals in her cohort because of her age. On the contrary, she gets invited out for happy hours and takes full part in the retreats and whatnot.</p>

<p>I don’t know why you are interested in doing masters and a Phd. Given your ambitions, why not take those classes at a community college to broaden your knowledge and refresh your academic mindset and then just apply directly for a Phd program?</p>

3

<p>Ha ha…end after 30? Life really begins after 30 in my opinion…whole different state of being. I loved my twenties but I wouldn’t go back there for all the tea in China.</p>

<p>My thinking on getting the master’s first was, I have an undergrad engineering degree and an MBA. If I were on an adcom looking at my PhD application and saw just a few community college classes in Anthropology, I would toss my application in the reject pile immediately. I feel like I need to beef up the resume a bit, for no other reason than to show my commitment, ability in the field and to prove I’m not planning to be some kind of academic tourist in this…I want to be a fully contributing member in the field.</p>

<p>Do you really think that it would be unnecessary to get the MA first?</p>

4

<p>You’re really not all that unconvential, believe it or not. The majority of my cohort (first-year) is in their late twenties and early thirties; the oldest amongst us is 37. I am the odd-one out at age 22. Many people decide to start second careers in research after working for years, and they bring with them a wealth of experience and matury that I and others who come straight from undergrad just don’t have.</p>

<p>Most of my peers are 5-7 years older than me, and the oldest is 15 years older than me, but I can say that I don’t really notice when we’re together hanging out (which usually involves getting together over someone’s house, eating dinner out, or throwing a baby shower; we don’t go clubbing or anything like that lol). We’re all women and we all have similar problems and joys in life (we love research, we love academia, we have the same academic frustrations, most of us are partnered but not married). I like hanging out with them, and I would love having a 50something in my class bringing all that expertise and knowledge to enrich our discussions. It’d be great.</p>

<p>Most Ph.D programs in anthropology come with funding, so you wouldn’t have to worry about that. If your house is paid off and you go to a program nearby your house, that will be a tremendous help – I get paid just about $2000 a month and 43% of my pay goes to rent. If I had an extra $925 month I would be cruising; I’m doing well enough already with my salary.</p>

<p>As for getting the MA first, whether or not it’s necessary depends. The two anthropologists in my interdisciplinary department came with master’s already, and from what I hear in anthro more can be better – having an MA shows a level of expertise. What you really need to do, however, is get some anthropological research experience. Partner up with a professor at a nearby university and ask if you can do some research for him. And find a way to twist whatever you’re doing at work to be relevant to anthro.</p>

5

<p>That’s really reassuring to hear…I was a little afraid of being a social outcast but that doesn’t sound like the case. And I am a decent cook, I could host a few of those get togethers to help break the ice.</p>

<p>Whether I not I go to a program near me is irrelevant…I would go to a program that best fit what I wanted. My place is very rentable, so if the mortgage was done I could rent it out (and after expenses for insurance, taxes, property management) would still net $700-$800 in today’s dollars in income. I could put that to renting a place somewhere else if that is what felt right…</p>

6

<p>I loved your comment about being an “academic tourist”. I immediately pictured a person wearing white shorts and a hawaiian shirt snapping photos of professors as they pass through the department reception area.</p>

<p>No offense was meant with the comment about the existence of life and free will after 30. As I age, my friends are beginning to abandon the optimistic and exciting possibilities that careers can offer for “stability”. I am glad to see that this process isn’t unidirectional.</p>

7

<p>Belivitt, no offense was taken. I think everyone has to find their own path in life. For me, I went pragmatic early on, and that has its benefits in building financial security. Sometimes, I wish I had maybe been more of risk taker early on. But for me, my passion found me later in life. I don’t regret it, in the interim I’ve managed my finances well and I’ll be in a position in a few years to have the luxury of taking some risks but with a good financial backstop in place. </p>

<p>Because you can tell your friends…the secret is, there really is no stability anywhere anymore, especially not in the corporate world. There is no more sitting around, showing up to work, doing a good job, and retiring with the gold watch. The company I’ve been at is a good one, but I’ve watched too many 50 somethings get packaged out (laid off). I know that I need to take control over my own future, figure out what I really want, and take steps towards that. </p>

<p>I guess the grass is always greener on the other side, I can definitely see why some people would think I’m nuts for even contemplating taking a pay cut from a cushy salary…but I know that if I don’t keep pushing myself to grow and to look towards what’s next for me, then its inevitable that someday I’ll be that 50 something that is laid off. Its just the unfortunate way that corporate america works now. So, tell your friends if they are looking for stability…the ONLY way to reach it is to save diligently, invest wisely, and plan for their futures, in my opinion.</p>

<p>Thanks for your insights, I promise not to bring my camera to my first day as a full time (old) grad student :)</p>

8

<p>I would propose a plan D: finish the masters and teach at community college(s). You can pursue research and bask in the glow of forming young minds without the pressure of X published papers a year and 200+ students to manage, plus you circumvent the six-odd years of $20k stipends that severely hamper your ability to invest for retirement.</p>

9

<p>Stability does exist- federal judges and tenured faculty have jobs for life. One of my buddies is a bankruptcy attorney, his job seems about as stable as any out there.</p>

10

<p>Have you considered a second bachelor’s degree rather then just community college coursework? That should set you up to apply directly to a Ph.D. program. You may not even have to complete the full degree, just take the pre-req.s for the graduate level courses that you would want to be taking. That’s what I did when I changed fields.</p>

11

<p>tkm, I did actually think of that, and I was actually going to try and apply to our local college as part-time faculty for evening business courses (my MBA qualifies me…). I don’t know if I’ll actually get the assignment, but I thought I would try and then see if that would be enough for me. In which case I can just get the Masters and stop there, but I would make that decision when the time came.</p>

<p>happymom, I did briefly consider a second bachelor’s but it seemed like it would be almost (if not the same) amount of work as the master’s. And with the master’s at least I would have a chance to stop there and teach, etc vs. just the bachelor’s.</p>

<p>belevitt - yes lawyers are probably the one stable profession out there…unfortunately for society, I think! And tenured professors too :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Thanks for all your ideas/suggestions…it is really helping me to pressure test my thoughts so keep them coming…</p>

12

<p>A second bachelor’s is generally useless except in a few fields, like nursing and engineering. There are very few liberal arts fields in which you cannot make the switch from an unrelated undergrad degree with the help of a few non-degree courses. And as caninelover said, a master’s degree usually takes just as much time (if not less!) than a second bachelor’s, but has the advantage of extra earnings and opportunities – and more funding opportunities as well. There is very little financial aid for second bachelor’s degrees.</p>

<p>I agree with the teaching at a community college wager – a lot of professors are very satisfied with their community college work!</p>

13

<p>Being older should not in itself be a problem, though you may find the adjustment to PhD student life even more shocking than your peers. Whether or not that’s a problem for you is a personal question that we can’t answer.</p>

<p>A more important question is whether the PhD process is intrinsically adequately rewarding or whether you’d need to accomplish your stated goal of landing an academic position following graduation. Even in very applied social sciences with some industry demand, academic positions are far from guaranteed, especially if you’re not admitted to an elite program. If you never find a teaching gig beyond the part-time/adjunct level, would you still be glad that you’d sunk 5-7 years into the PhD?</p>