D is looking at both schools and is interested in pre-med. She has visited both and liked, not loved, them, but tours were general and she didn’t get much info on pre-med programs, opportunities for undergraduate research, internships in the area, etc.
Anyone have any insight?
This is my first post, but I’ve been following the site for a few years.
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D18 is trying to decide whether to take the SAT’s again in October. She took them last December without preparing and again in June, when she planned to prepare, but didn’t. She is considering taking them a third time, to try to raise her Reading/Writing score, and is thinking she will prepare this time (I know, that’s questionable), just for that portion. She will be applying to a mix of in-state publics and out of state privates and is hoping to receive merit aid at the privates that might put those schools in financial reach, as well as, increase her chances of acceptance at her reach schools.
Her scores:
December – 700 R/W, 670 Math
June – 680 R/W, 780 Math
ACT - 34.
She has not had her scores sent to any schools.
Her gpa is around 3.4 UW/4.2 W and her EC’s are very good, but not over the top, as some I see on this site. No “hooks” of any kind. The schools where she plans to apply (EA for all) are a mix of 3 pretty safe bets, we think (NC State, Ursinus and Dickinson) and 2 that are reaches (Richmond, UNC-CH).
IMO, she should focus her efforts and time, at this point, on her essays. But I would really like the input of others here, as well.
Thanks in advance.
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Is it UNCWilmington?
Why is she considering those two schools? I will check, but I don’t think either of those schools have very many successful premeds to US MD schools.
And what do you want her net costs to be after merit?
I looked at the data and don’t see anything that suggests that either school has very many applicants to US MD schools. That would be an issue for me.
My other concern is that your daughter’s ACT is probably unusual and unique for those schools.
@mom2collegekids, I agree with your assessment about these schools not having many applicants to US MD schools. When we toured UNCW, it was clear her stats were high and that not a lot of students continue on to grad school. DH took her to App State and I didn’t get similar info from there.
These are the two schools she wants to apply to as safeties. Our budget is an in-state public education, with merit required for any private. Apparently, her stats are a little unusual (unweighted GPA vs ACT/SAT) so the stronger publics, UNC-CH and NCSU for pre-med, are likely reach schools for her (I used to think NCSU was more of a match, but now I’m not sure.) She has a pretty strong, well rounded background, but if schools focus on GPA, she may suffer.
We’re struggling to identify a couple of good safeties, so she has choices.
Learn what it takes to get into med school by reading thru the very informative https://www.rhodes.edu/sites/default/files/PreMed_Essentials.pdf. There is also a good handbook at https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/gradstudy/health/guide and no doubt many other websites, as well as books.
Any college in the country offers the lower-division science and math needed by premeds. Whether a kid works for good grades, get to know some profs so they get strong recs, take part in appropriate ECs, and develop compelling essays is up to them. The concern I would have about some of these schools is not whether they are capable of teaching the material but the milieu. If most kids around you are slacking off or don’t take academics seriously it could be socially uncomfortable to be the “nerd” that is at the library studying.
The real question to address at this point is not what college, but why an M.D? Have she looked into the medical field and considered the alternatives? Its almost a reflex action among HS kids, they think of a career in medicine and its “I’m pre-med!” Doctors are far from the only ones in the health field that help people. Physical therapists, radiology techs, nurses, speech pathologists, physician assistants, to name but just a few. Spend a few hours browsing on http://explorehealthcareers.org Unless she’s considered the alternatives and has spent time actually working in a health care setting (which is an unwritten requirement to get into med school, BTW) its better to think of her as interested in exploring a career as a doctor rather than someone who has already made the decision.
@mikemac Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate the links and will look at them, as well as, encourage her to do the same. I do have a concern that the environment may not be extremely focused on academics, based on tour impressions, statistics, impressions of friends who have toured, anecdotal info on CC, etc. So yes, that leaves me more than a little concerned about the potential social pressure to slack off. We are encouraging application to the Honors programs at both.
Her interest in being an MD goes back about 4 years. She will graduate high school with a medical diploma designation that is similar to an IB program, in that it requires extra coursework/electives in specific subjects, a job shadowing experience, an internship and service hours, all medically related. The purpose is to expose the students who are interested in medicine to a wide range of career options. She has also participated in a class at our local hospital which was designed to introduce teens to various careers in medicine. So, while I still think her desire for pre-med may change, she has probably had more than the usual amount of exposure to medical career options at this stage of her life than most seniors. So, she is choosing pre-med, but we encourage her to recognize that her plan may change and to choose a school where she can pursue options.
Have you looked at LAC’s? The hard part is getting past the sticker price. Some give a lot of aid. An example is Beloit College. You would just have to apply with the understanding that the ability to go is dependent upon the final financial aid package. Also, remember pre med is not a major, it is a list of classes that can be taken with any other major. Even with all she has done up till now, she has less than a 50% chance of actually starting Medical School. A lot of the majors that people think are good for pre med (e.g. Biology) do not have great career prospects at the BA/BS level. Ask her what her next interest is. Consider majoring in that with still taking all of the classes that would make her eligible for med school. A barbell strategy (something safe + a longshot) is much better than all eggs in one basket. It worked for Einstein.
@Eeyore123 , yes, we’ve visited about 6 or 7 LAC’s. She plans to apply to a couple of them, but merit money will likely be too low at one (but it’s her “favorite”) to make it affordable. I have been encouraging her to think of majors she likes, not just the typical Biology major, so that she can have a job in 4 years, if med school doesn’t work out. I think she’s thinking of other medical careers, like being a PA, if being an MD isn’t in the cards.
Thanks so much for your input. Not sure exactly why, but this one has been challenging. I think it may be the not-so-stellar GPA that’s making things rather difficult. That, and the fact that there’s a pretty decent sized gap between the top two state schools and the next ones in the general rankings.
We are in NC too and UNC and NC State are very good schools and great value for instate students. It makes it difficult to justify paying the excess to go OOS…
No need to pay more for an OOS student with her stats…
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the stronger publics, UNC-CH and NCSU for pre-med, are likely reach schools for her
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Ok, so those schools may be reaches for her because of GPA. She still has other options for schools that have enough premeds to justify a strong premed advising office and a developed premed student group.
With her stats, she’d get $25k per year from alabama. The net cost would be lower than an instate public because tuition would be nearly free. Bama has about 200 applicants to med schools. Bama brings in actual med school adcoms to give mock interviews and to provide useful feedback. Bama does write committee letters. The premed honor society for students is Alpha Epsilon Delta.
Yes, she should major in whatever she likes…whatever subject that she loves and will do well in.
Will she come in with any AP credits?
Fortunately NC residents have an excellent in-state option, UNC Asheville.
As for App and UNCW, both have strong life science programs. (I have taught summer courses at App and know it well.) They get fewer pre-meds primarily because Carolina, State, and ECU tend to draw most of the med-oriented students in NC, and biology majors at App and UNCW tend to be more interested in environmental science and marine biology, respectively. There’s absolutely no reason a strong student would struggle get into med school from either UNCW or App.
@mom2collegekids, thank you for reminding me about Alabama. She has said she doesn’t want to go further south, but she doesn’t have the stats or budget to limit her options too much. She probably needs to cast a wider net. I had not looked at Alabama and was unaware that merit could get the cost so low or that they had such good support for pre-meds. I will have her take a look at it, for sure. She needs to realize that she may have to change some of her expectations if she wants to reach her goals. Nothing wrong with that, imho. Your post was extremely helpful. I’m sure she’ll have some AP credits as well, with 7 AP courses total.
@warblersrule, I agree completely about the programs at App and UNCW. They have good life science programs, but there’s a lot of emphasis on non-human biology, so it’s a little harder to get at the stats for students who want pre-med, for example. App does have a cadaver lab, which D thought was “cool.” I appreciate your input on App. I agree that she should be able to be successful at either school (we do encourage a “bloom where you’re planted” approach), but I’d like to see her at a school that knows how to support pre-meds through their med school application prep. I also see your point, and agree, that Carolina, State and ECU tend to attract the pre-med types. We are very fortunate in NC to have such good programs at our state schools, but that also makes those schools more competitive. ECU is likely an option, stats wise, but she has some concerns about the school and isn’t interested in applying.
She’s my third child and you’d think I’d be more prepared to help guide her through this process, but they have all been so different, with different strengths, interests, etc. She has the added complication of having mixed stats and wanting to do a pre-med program, which we know nothing about.
I really appreciate all the thoughtful input!
@mom2collegekids, I read your post to my DD and she is willing to consider Alabama! She was impressed by all the support for pre-meds. Now to start the research…