<p>Hi, My son has “low grades” 90/100, but 1600/1600 SATS. He’s really wants Columbia, Penn but knows those are big reaches. His slight reaches/matches are JHU, GW, Villanova, UMD. Here’s our dilemma: Should he apply to his 1st choice (Columbia) ED knowing he probably still won’t get in, but will have a better chance than RD, or apply to one of his next tier schools ED?</p>
<p>mrmarky - it depends on his class rank, class rigor and EC’s. If he took the most rigorous curriculum and has a high class rank and has a few impressive EC’s, then I’d say go for the Columbia ED, even though it would still be a reach. If not, try JHU ED. Here is another question - does he have a hook?</p>
<p>Btw, I would not consider JHU a slight reach/match, unless your son satisfies all the if’s above.</p>
<p>mrmarky, that really I think depends on the psychology of the kid. Is he always going to regret not knowing if he could have gotten in to his reaches? Personally I believe if you have a clear first choice and finances aren’t an issue, you should apply to your first choice ED.</p>
<p>I agree with PCP that JHS is barely easier to get into than Columbia - at least at our school, it’s as hard to get into as almost any of the Ivy’s.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t put JHU on the same selectivity tier as the others you list: GW, Villanova, UMD. </p>
<p>I suggest to check out the ED vs RD acceptance rates for the various schools. For JHU, overall acceptance rate is 30% vs 45% ED. For GW, overall acceptance rate is 38% and ED acceptance rate is 63%. </p>
<p>I don’t think I would “waste” ED on GW however, since assuming high rigor of classes, your son would be likely to get in RD. </p>
<p>I would consider ED for JHU, but only if your son really likes the school. </p>
<p>Does your HS have Naviance? If so, you could get a lot of useful historical data for all of the schools under consideration. For my S, I consider JHU a reach, but GW a low match, based upon his school’s Naviance data.</p>
<p>thanks for the quick replies. At my son’s HS, JHU is considered a match for the top 20% students (it’s a top rated prep school with 100 grads/10% to ivies.) My son is at the low end of that 20%. He has taken the most rigorous courses and good ECs. Plays a varsity sport and is a state chess champion, president of a few clubs, including a community service org. Don’t think he has a “hook” though. MY decision would be to apply to ED to Columbia, but i think ED at Hopkins could put him over the top there. aaagh. the good thing is that I think my son would be happy going to any of the schools on his short list - just a bit happier at his number 1.</p>
<p>We’re looking at Villanova, GW and UMD as matches and JHU as a slight reach. The three are also on his lower tier of interest.</p>
<p>where do you find ED vs. RD rates of admission? Those stats would be very helpful in our situation.</p>
<p>I got the acceptance rate data from the Princeton Review Best 368 Colleges book. </p>
<p>One thing to note is that the RD acceptance rate will be LOWER than the overall AR I gave above, since the overall AR will be a weighted average of the RD and ED ARs. How big of an impact that is will depend upon what percentage of the acceptances are ED.</p>
<p>Columbia’s overall AR is 10, ED AR is 24.</p>
<p>Penn’s overall AR is 16, ED AR isn’t provided in the book. BTW, according to other threads I’ve seen on CC, Penn is big on being in the Top 10%, 96% of the class. So if your school ranks, I would think twice about applying ED there.</p>
<p>Columbia isn’t much better, with 94% from the top 10%. Johns Hopkins has a more reasonable 82%, and GW 66%.</p>
<p>Wow, you’ve been busy posting today! I must chime in on the USC discussion since S1 is a soph there in the film school and I’d describe him as a quirky, smart, intellectual artist type. USC offers majors in 17 undergraduate Schools, and the reps of each have improved as all are much more rigorous and also more highly respected than years ago. The average admit had an UW GPA of 3.8 in 2008 and 2009, but that means they admit many in the 3.5 and up category with stellar ECs, special interests, etc, especially with great test scores–so they fit well into this category. </p>
<p>I teach at UCLA so you can imagine my first reaction when S1 announced his first choice was USC (much driven by the film school rep and also his major–Interactive Media). As you have heard, USC offers many merit scholarships (over 20% of incoming students are awarded them) and for those with creative majors (art, music, theatre, film, etc) there are merit awards where talent plays a large role. So yes, it was a lot easier for us to fall in love with USC when our S1 got one of these awards. </p>
<p>For those who attended USC many years ago, I have met many really terrific people who are extremely successful today. I wonder what lesson that teaches us?</p>
<p>I also get frustrated trying to figure out what GPA calculations a given school will use since most private colleges will not make their formulas public. </p>
<p>I think if a student has had one or two low grades, it is helpful for them to address it directly in an essay. The common app has an extra section for this purpose.</p>
<p>I don’t see how you could talk about a low grade in an essay without making it sound like an excuse or falling into a trite “now I’ve learned something about myself” rut. The exception being if there were extraordinary personal circumstances (death in the family type of thing).</p>
<p>GPAs can be interpretted differently. We had a kid last year get into Dartmouth with a 3.2 core GPA and a 3.4 overall GPA. He had some okay ECs but great admissions essays and test scores. Then again he did go to a magnet school.</p>
<p>I’m of the school that the only person who should discuss specific grades (and the circumstances for them) is the GC. I’d discuss it with the GC first to see if he/she thinks the grade(s) in question merit a comment. Applicants should focus on presenting themselves in all their variety and delightful complexity through their essays. Talking about grades comes off as complaining.</p>
<p>mrmarky, if your son is very interested in applying to Columbia ED, the why isn’t he applying to Chicago EA as well ?Chicago and Columbia have a LOT more in common than Columbia and JHU or Penn. Both have the core, and attract similar quirky intellectual kids who want to live in a big city. JHU is a great U, but it is a magnet to those interested in being pre-meds. Penn is very pre-professional, and seems to be very ranking conscious in their acceptance practices… With your son’s stats and interests, he would have a greater chance of early acceptance at Chicago, which is considered just as prestigious a University as C or P.</p>
<p>[10% to ivies.) My son is at the low end of that 20%
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<p>10% at a strong prep school will usually include a significant number of legacies and other hooked. Sounds like JHU would be the much better strategy.</p>
<p>just bumping this up over the spam.</p>
<p>DS1 had another talk with his GC. I was surprised to hear that she said he shouldn’t even be bothered with U Rochester and that he should aim higher 
. To her credit, she did say the Ivies are real reaches – for anyone. I believe GC thinks DS1’s sweet spot is in the T15 – T30, with a few exceptions. </p>
<p>After closely examining the Naviance again :(, I’ve given up on trying to encourage/convince DS1 (and myself) on many tippy-tops. We are definitely narrowing down the candidate list. Not quite there yet, but we’ll be soon.</p>
<p>One a separate note, his work load is picking up fast and he’s already not having enough sleep. Do you see this with your senior kids?</p>
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One a separate note, his work load is picking up fast and he’s already not having enough sleep. Do you see this with your senior kids?
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<p>Definitely. I believe he is putting in for late study hours at least three nights a week. Last night he said he expected to be up until 2am. On a positive note, though, he has finally discovered the beauty of afternoon “power naps” (something I’ve advocated for years), and he says they really help him keep going. (EDIT: Little naps work wonders for ADD kids.)</p>
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I’ve given up on trying to encourage/convince DS1 (and myself) on many tippy-tops.
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<p>Me, too. The highest schools on my son’s list, MIT and Chicago, are starting to seem wrong somehow. MIT seems just plain out-of-reach. Chicago seems within reach but possibly not worth the headache and cost (since their need-based aid seems to be a bit lacking). I’m starting to believe that my son’s focus should be in the range of Rochester/Case/Tulane, which I believe are true matches, and that his reaches ought to be on the order of WashU and Rice.</p>
<p>Sleep is hard to come by these days…D really needs a lot of sleep, but with 4 APs and a schools play, not to mention all other activities, she is rarely getting to bed before 11 (and she needs to be in bed by 10 for a really adequate amount of sleep) and often after 12 am. I hope she has a little more time after the EA apps are finished and sent out.</p>
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<p>Wouldn’t want the student to consider looking into #35, even if it might turn out to be a great fit. Grrrrrrrrr.</p>
<p>That’s not how I interpreted PaperChaserPop - that it was strictly 15-30, with 35 being out-of-the-range. That’s the problem with all these rankings and ratings – they get used as cutoffs as opposed to general bands.</p>