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<p>I bet the next crop of S&B people are already predetermined. Old-money, powerful families, old Eastern establishment, and the like. Your typical Yale freshman isn’t in the running for it, I don’t think.</p>
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<p>No. In high school, they need to learn to handle it themselves. I would not get involved as a parent unless it was something completely egregious. I don’t think it does a kid any good to be known as having a parent who’s all over the teacher.</p>
<p>Bet you’re right, Pizzagirl. No Skull-and-Bones for us regular folk.</p>
<p>I agree with PG above. This level of intervention (for homework, etc) seems to be WAY TOO INTRUSIVE. Kids need to learn how to “own” their education. I do believe parents should be advocates, but save the advocacy and intervention for things that really matter and something that really do require “adult intervention”, not high school homework assignment and tests.</p>
<p>What, are you going to follow your kid all the way to college and intervene in his dealings with school authorities and faculty? Why stop there? We must work with the prospective employers also.</p>
<p>Aha- so far my theory is correct, 6 out of 6 parents in this thread believe in letting their kids handle their own teacher relationships. Please don’t miss my point, hyeonjlee- that our indepent 3.6 kids may have more to offer colleges than those whose parents helped them get that 4.0</p>
<p>I have heard lots about adcoms who can spot DDI (Daddy Did It) essays. I have never heard anything about Mommy Did It GPA’S</p>
<p>Do we want to be cut-throat grades grabbers? What does this kind of behavior teach our kids? </p>
<p>I agree with PG - don’t get involved unless it was something “egregious”. That said, I still wonder if I should’ve at least talked to the teachers about a few final grades…</p>
<p>On another note, I just learned that more than a dozen kids from our high school matriculated to HYPSM this year, and over 40 to T20’s. If I include the top 10 LAC’s, the number jumps to about 60, and that’s more than 10% of the class. The number is encouraging to me given the size of the school.</p>
<p>Does anyone have similar data to share?</p>
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So, were you a parent who left teacher relations to your child, or one who “hovered”?
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<p>Interesting question, and I’m enjoying the responses so far. In this thread, I would expect most of us to say that we leave the grade-grubbing to our kids. In some other threads, I’m sure there are parents who really would call the teacher about every B.</p>
<p>I am a “hoverer lite”. I do try to get to know my kids’ teachers, and if I see a downward trend in my kids’ grades, I always contact the teacher to see what the problem is (or, often, to tell them what the problem is), but I do so in a spirit of mutual cooperation. Now and then I’ll send an email for no particular reason other than to ask if my kid seems to be all right. If offer to help, etc.</p>
<p>I’ve never known a grade to be changed because of anything I did or said, but I’m pretty sure my kids get the benefit of the doubt sometimes when the grade is borderline, just because teachers seem to appreciate that I engage them without imposing.</p>
<p>This is my perception, of course. They may hate me.</p>
<p>I found that after freshman year teachers do NOT want to hear from parents- they want the STUDENTS to learn to advocate for themselves. As a former 'hovering" parent who was basically[ but nicely] told not to speak on my son’s behave, I now agree that kids do need to learn to advocate for themselves- and the sooner the better!</p>
<p>“The theory being that teachers try to give a certain number of A’s, B’s, etc., and if your child is borderline, but you make it clear you will be there to talk over every B, she is more likely to give your child the A and another borderline, whose parents don’t complain, will get the B.”
And this theory is based on what evidence? Sounds like something the author dreamed up in order to sell thousands of books to frustrated parents wanting to blame SOMEBODY for their child’s grades.</p>
<p>regarding parental involvement, here is my guideline. My son is a HS Junior.</p>
<p>(1) EC: I never intervene. What he does, how he does it, and how much time he spends are all completely off limit to me (voluntary on my part)</p>
<p>(2) grades, homework, test, time management: ditto</p>
<p>(3) any dealing with teachers for the classroom activities: Completely hands off on my part</p>
<p>(4) SAT: “encouraged somewhat strongly” S2 to enroll in the prep course since it’s his achiles heel.</p>
<p>(5) AP courses: S2’s high school wouldn’t let him take them because of the class size limitation even though he aced the sophomore courses and got teachers’ recommendation. He talked to the school authorities first. Did not work. I intervened. He is in all three AP courses he wanted to be in.</p>
<p>(6) School profile: I am planning to work with guidance counselor to get a sneak preview and see to it that it’s in order</p>
<p>(7) Guidance counselor assignment: I am working to change the assigned guidance counselor since the GC who is NOT assigned to S2 is far more knowledgeable and knows my kid much, much better. He will write a much better letter for S2. This is a delicate matter that requires political skill. Way above the pay grade of my son. I will do all the background work, but HE will be the one making a request. . </p>
<p>(8) the whole ROTC scholarship thing: I talked to several unit commanders of the potential ROTC units serving the schools S2 is interested in. They shared all sorts of “tips and strategies” of gaming the system with careful prodding and leading questions on my part. I highly doubt they would have been so open with a 16 year old kid about the “adult” tricks of gaming the system. </p>
<p>All in all, my line is, if it requires adult to adult candid conversation and “secret conspiracy” 
I intervene.</p>
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<p>Sure. The graduating class of my son’s school last year was 95 kids. 92 of them went directly to four-year colleges, 1 joined the military, 1 went overseas to volunteer for a year, and 1 was undecided.</p>
<p>I think I’ve posted this breakdown somewhere else; if it differs a little from whatever I posted before, it’s because I’m counting manually and may not get it exactly right. Here’s what I see on the list the school sent out of schools the kids are actually attending (not where they were admitted):</p>
<p>4 - T20 universities
4 - T20 LACs
3 - service academies
50 - in-state publics
6 - in-state privates
2 - international
23 - other (various large and small privates and publics around the country)</p>
<p>There are several reasons so many of the kids stay in-state: (1) Many of the kids are low-income, and our state offers incredible scholarships for good students who stay in-state, hence a big financial incentive not to leave. (2) They have so much concurrent credit that they can often finish a bachelor’s degree in two years, but those credits often don’t transfer out-of-state. (3) People just aren’t very mobile in this state; they like to stay put.</p>
<p>Hope that’s interesting.</p>
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<p>^^taken from Pomona Adcom (and thanks PCP for the advice on quotes)</p>
<p>It is for just such a reason that the GCs at my kids’ highly rigorous prep school recommend a student explain that glitchy grade rather than ignore it hoping the admissions people will just overlook it. If the reason for the glitch was health, family trauma, moving schools, or even overloading on ECs and then finding the maturity to make a correction, our students are advised it’s better to explain.</p>
<p>I said something kind of misleading:</p>
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<p>Actually, I know they get the benefit of the doubt sometimes because the teachers like my kids and occasionally do them favors to get them out of a tough spot. I can not take any credit for this. I really just meant that I think the teachers like us as a family, and that can only help. I doubt if liking me has anything to do with what grade teachers give my kids.</p>
<p>" …our indepent 3.6 kids may have more to offer colleges than those whose parents helped them get that 4.0"</p>
<p>No reflection on the 3.6 kids, but do you seriously think that most students who get a 4.0get those grades because of parent intervention? Wow.</p>
<p>Ill go against the crowd here and say that, in hindsight, I wish I had done more. Ive grown quite cynical and unhappy with the instructional methods used in our schools because I think theyre failing to promote the best learning from many of our students. Certainly true for many boys. The bottom line for me is that I want my kids to reach their academic potential, and sometime letting them advocate for themselves against a dysfunctional educational system takes away from this overriding objective.</p>
<p>I remember when S was a sophomore and was having motivational/organizational problems, I mentioned to his GC that I wanted to meet with his teachers. She vigorously objected, asking me if I planned to do the same thing when he went to college. College? He was just an unfocused 15-year old and he needed help, IMO. As far as the school was concerned, he just had to learn on his own to go for extra help. Sink or swim, thats their approach and I vehemently disagree.</p>
<p>Here’s an example of something I will probably speak up about that I just became aware of in my Ds middle school. Her teacher pairs up students to play social studies bingo. The highest scoring student pairs are able to win extra points that count towards their next test. I object to this because its unfair in awarding higher grades to some students based on random pairings instead of on what the individual student knows. I know how stuff like this can discourage some students and lead to a cynical attitude towards school.</p>
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<p>I have been very hands off with respect to school, other than to volunteer a lot. But I have several friends who are in there weekly, complaining to administration about the teachers, grades, etc. (Not uncommon in a private school where many parents believe they are entitled to have a lot of input into the running of the school). Based upon personal observation - it doesn’t help with the grades - none of these kids were great students to begin with and complaining seems to do more to alienate the teachers than to help. And I don’t think it really makes much of a difference for the 4.0 kids either. The parents aren’t in there taking the tests, doing the homework and participating in class. In our school, the teachers tend to stand their ground and the administration always backs them up.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have witness many cases where a parent has pushed for their child to be put into an honors or AP class. They often get their wish and frequently live to regret it when the kid struggles in a class they had no business in to begin with. Sometimes the kids do fine but it’s always a big gamble, IMHO.</p>
<p>The other area is seems to help is sports. If a parent is in there developing a strong relationship with the coaches and/or gets the ear of someone in administration, they can frequently influence how often their kid gets playing time and whether or not the coach will advocate for a college athletic scholarship. I’ve seen far more coaches fired because of parental complaining than teachers.</p>
<p>I always wonder what kind of message kids pick up when their parents are in there constantly complaining about the ‘unfair’ treatment their child is getting. I suspect those kids grow up to be whiny and inept at dealing with every life as well as feeling a large sense of entitlement. Again, just my opinion.</p>
<p>For those that asked…</p>
<p>In a grad class of 289 kids:</p>
<p>109 (38%) - T20 Nat’l U’s
105 (37%) - T21-32 Nat’l Us
38 (13%) - T20 LAC
37 (13%) - Other</p>
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<p>While I see your point and I’m not taking issue with it, you might want to keep in mind that in high school and college, students are frequently paired up randomly with other students for group projects. It’s maddening because there is always a slacker or two in the group as well as someone who wants to control the whole project. The goal of this type of project is to give students the opportunity to learn how to function as a team.</p>
<p>At work, this is often the case. You have strong team members and those who are almost inept. Unfortunately, this is real life and you will never get away from it. You just have to learn to work within the system and by the ‘rules’ made up by those in charge whether it seems fair or not. </p>
<p>I think it’s important for parents to pick their battles with the school. Once the school perceives a parent to be a constant complainer, they will often stop taking you very seriously and will say things just to appease you. At the end of the day, your child’s work will speak for itself.</p>
<p>Lol tbh, you shouldn’t complain about bad group members.
You need to get pro at being a beast team no matter who you get into a group with.</p>
<p>There are advanced social techniques that your children have to learn that allows them to make an effective team with anyone.</p>
<p>Another thing, “unfocused 15 year olds”, tell them to get on CC.</p>
<p>There’s a point where you stop complaining about the school and you start taking things into your own hands. Also, no such thing as struggling in class do to inability to handle it. Handling increasing workloads is a skill that needs to be developed. All the most successful, (top .001%) people in the world/US had enormous amounts of work. Get used to it, improve your work efficiency/skills. People who drop classes are like, “oh I guess I can’t handle it.” are subjecting themselves to an attitude that they are stuck at a certain level of ability. That is a BS explanation, taking the class is an opportunity to adjust to higher amounts of work. lolz.</p>
<p>I have no idea what percentage of our school end’s up at T20 schools. 75% go to four year colleges, 23% or so go to two year colleges, and about 3% go into the military. From my older son’s class most of the top 4% were going to Ivies, other top universities or the top LACs, how many further down the class may also have been attending is anyone’s guess. Those are the ones announced at the assembly. No. 25 went to Brown.</p>