<p>Our school publishes college acceptance online (part of school profile) and at the end of year the school paper lists where every senior is attenting. There is never any need to stalk FB to get that information. </p>
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<p>I have to respectively disagree with this. Our GCs work with 40 students each. Most of them have known those kids since middle school. They get pretty emotionally involved, at least my daughter’s GC did. She called us and our daughter as soon as results came out(she knew it was going to be bad). She wanted to drive up to see a college’s rep to speak on my daughter’s behalf. She said the day after Ivies results come out is always bitter sweet for her. They place about 35% to T20s, but many are legacies and athletes.</p>
<p>That makes a huge difference. Maybe the difference.</p>
<p>My son’s first high school, a respected but not elite Chicago suburban public, had eight GCs for 1600 students, or 200 apiece. When my wife and I had a conference with my son’s GC, we asked about her record of college placement. She gave us three examples: One admitted to MIT, one admitted to UCLA, and one wait-listed at Stanford. Not real impressive. But then, as PCP said above, she was probably focused on getting 97% of her kids into some college, not getting the other 3% into a great college.</p>
<p>My son’s current school—a small, public magnet—is another world. The walls are covered with college posters; they have a representative from some college or other on-campus every week (and it’s hundreds of miles from any noteworthy college); they bus the kids around the state to attend college information sessions. Even though only about 10% of the kids end up at top-20 colleges, the GCs (three of them for around 200 students) make sure every one of them knows that top-20 is worth striving for. Wonderful!</p>
<p>I have noticed at my sons’ school that both GCs have their “favorites” list of schools. Depending on the student profile they can list a half dozen schools all within 150 miles that would most likely accept that student. I believe that the list is the result of years of working with individual schools. These schools are their “friends”, they probably understand the admissions process at these institutions as well as the admissions committees do. What bothers me is that after years of talking about finding “the right fit”, these lists are thrown out as though one place for an education is basically as good as another. If that’s the case, why do I need them? And woe unto you if you decide to step out of their comfort zone of schools; in that case, you may find that you are better informed about a particular school than they ever will be.</p>
<p>I haven’t noticed any colleges emerging as our GC’s favorites, aside from the fact that 50% of the kids end up at the same four in-state colleges, but that probably doesn’t have much to do with the GCs.</p>
<p>However, there are clearly “favorites” in a given year. For no apparent reason, we’ll send three kids to Emory one year. The next year, it’s three kids to Penn State. The next, it’s three to Boston U. Statistically with only 100 kids this can not be random, but I don’t know if it’s because the counselors are steering the kids (possible) or because the kids decide it would be cool to go to college as a group (more likely, although in some cases I don’t think the kids were friends).</p>
<p>Right. “We’ve had kids get into Harvard – look at Billy from last year and Suzie two years before that” is a very different thing from “We have an accurate perception of your kid’s shot for Harvard and we know how to set it up so that he’s taking his best shot.” (Don’t get all worked up about Harvard. I’m just using it as shorthand for a really good school in the spirit of 40 schools in the top 20.) </p>
<p>Just a few days ago, one of S’s teachers said something to me that Harvard (etc) are “all trying to diversify” so “the fact that we’re from the midwest could really be a hook.” It was everything I could do not to roll my eyes at the unsophistication of believing that any top school goes, “Oh, wow, suburban Chicagoland! That’s a unique part of the country - no one has ever applied here before, how exotic!” She was well-meaning, to be sure. </p>
<p>Honestly? My kids’ GC’s all grew up in this area and attended the nearby directional state u’s. They haven’t lived out east, they didn’t have the fancy-mcschmancy educations themselves. They are spending the bulk of their time either dealing with troubled kids or doing the paperwork to get kids into state flagship or directional u’s or local privates. It would be a poor use of their time to develop expertise on all the top schools when only a handful of their students would ever need it. And, there is a real acceptance with top students going to U of I because it’s still an excellent u at a very good price (which honestly I can’t argue with). It’s not a “disaster” if the val / sal / etc winds up there, the way it seems to be elsewhere.</p>
<p>I have always been hands-off with school admin, and my first daughter was a 3.3-3.6 student and my second daughter is a 3.9. I guess my experience tells me that not intervening made absolutely no difference in gpa for my girls. They’re just different and they earned their results.</p>
<p>PCP - our middle school and high school are in the same building, but different wings.</p>
<p>GC is important in the process. Even with 40 kids, one could still get lost in the shuffle. D1 made a point of meeting with her counselor once a week. Her counselor said it was amazing how few kids came to see her by themselves. She literally had to pulled them into her office. I also made a point of letting her to get to know us. I emailed her frequently with questions, or I would send her an article I have read. We didn’t read D1’s recommendation letters from her teachers, but the GC did read them and told me that they were very good. They get very upset with parents who push their kids around (even if you do, can’t appear as such). The GC got quite made at a parent for not letting his kid go to BC instead of Harvard. The kid really liked BC, but the parents wouldn’t pay unless she went to Harvard. The kid took a gap year instead. The GC also said it’s embarrassing when husband and wife start to fight about where their kid should go to college in front of her. Clearly there is a bigger issue than where the kid should go to school.</p>
<p>LOL. My laugh for the weekend. Thanks oldfort!</p>
<p>I’d like to ask you a question. Given the close relationship between your D1 and her GC, did her GC tell her anything about where she might be lacking in applying to the Ivies that ultimately rejected her?</p>
<p>It is VERY common in our school for students to turn down Top 20 schools to attend schools with lower ranks, generally an honors college or an opportunity for a special scholarship or program. Interestingly, some students go to a Top 20 school as their fall-back after not making the cut for the state school honors program or for a scholarship program at another school.</p>
<p>She told me because D1 was too upset to listen to anything. She said her application was perfect, but she was not an athlete, a legacy and she was a girl. There was one girl with almost identical stats as her and also a dancer, but with probably 50-100 points higher SATs (she couldn’t tell me), and her family had more of hardship (public knowledge). This girl got into Harvard and Princeton. The GC said she felt it was a fluke with my daughter, but it does happen. She was also one of those kids that there was high expectation by people at school, so it was doubly hard.</p>
<p>So, if D2’s GC tells her 3 years from now that she’ll be a shoo-in for school ___, I think I would take it with a grain of salt. It’s kind of like predicting interest rate movement.</p>
<p>Oh my, it didn’t even occur to me that my statement would seem pessimistic. The truth is, I consider his grades to be fine, and I would not be unhappy if this year was the same as last year. And since his habits haven’t changed and his classes haven’t gotten easier, I don’t expect his grades to improve. But I’m okay with that. :)</p>
<p>oldfort - Well Cornell and Duke are nothing to sneeze at. Why does being “a girl” have anything to do with her chances at the Ivies?</p>
<p>I found her GC’s rationale rather hollow. If she had the grades and the test scores, she didn’t have to be an athlete to get into these schools. I was hoping her GC told you something more meaningful so we can all learn a few things to prepare ourselves.</p>
<p>Hi everyone, I am a mom of a senior who is joining along at mantori’s suggestion. My daughter is also one of those kids with great test scores and a less-than-great transcript. She has a lot of bright spots on her record…but, unfortunately, the dark clouds are thereas well. I was starting to feel guilty about it all, that perhaps I should have intervened more through some teacher intimidation…ooops, I mean, conversation…but my daughter straightened me right out. She said there was NOTHING that would have gotten through to make any long term difference, and furthermore, she LIKES the part of herself that’s a bit quirky and doesn’t do the expected at every turn. I asked her if she has any regrets, knowing that she has limited her choices, and she says: ABSOLUTELY NOT, that she has to figure out her own way through, mistakes and all.</p>
<p>Sometimes I want to strangle her, but after this exchange, I just hugged her…which she actually let in, until she shrugged it off.</p>
<p>In the highly competitive private school world, where 38% get into T20, many of those ivy-matriculating students fall into the seriously hooked camp–academic kids with national athletic chops, kids of celebs/financial superstars, old money families (developmental admits to ivy alma maters), not to mention just super smart, super talented, super motivated kids. Just keeping it real. It was those gifts that got them admitted into the great private school in the first place–as in our city, only 13% of applicants get admitted to the top privates, and then pay a fortune (so must be either wealthy, or spectacularly appealing FAid students). They all get a fabulous education (with no busy work, no group projects, lots of writing, excellent teachers, small classes)–which is why we thought this was the best for our boys. However, the great success of so many of these graduates into the upper echelon of universities is informed by their coming into the college applicant pool with the same “gifts” that got them into their great prep schools. </p>
<p>The trick is for regular middle class kids whose parents may be scrimping on savings and other necessities to keep up with high private school tuition to then go on and afford the very nice colleges to which these kids may be admitted. Many in this situation happily take a well-regarded but lower ranked college with an honors program and great merit aid.</p>
<p>This thread seems to fall into a great deal of generalization. And, many times it concentrates on side issues. The proposition is great – paraphrasing: what does the just-out-of-reach smart kid do? The majority of the posts seem to talk about the “T20.” I thought the preface was that these kids probably would NOT be admitted to those schools – and the numbers would agree. So, the next question, what is the alternative, and is it any worse? </p>
<p>The first part of the question may best be answered by parents of geographic area discussing what schools (other than “T20”) are attended by their local whizzes. And, I think the second part will be easily answered in the negative. </p>
<p>To these kids, I would absolutely say, “Go ahead and apply to T20 for the ‘reach’ schools.” And hopefully those that really wish for the same have their dreams come true. </p>
<p>But, I also hope this thread can bear some more light upon the issue of what local schools (which may be unknown to outsiders) cater to the 3.6 kid and produce quality graduates who compare (or dare I say it – exceed) the quality of graduates from the T20.</p>
<p>FOTB, Hunt had an expression a few pages back about “there are about 40 or so schools in the top 20” and that’s how I’m interpreting / viewing this thread. We aren’t talking about the top 20 literally as in don’t-bother-posting-if-you’re-considering-#21; we’re talking about a broader range of excellent schools, and everyone’s “pets” within this range will be different. Top 20 is being used as shorthand, IMO.</p>