<p>Let’s be real … let’s take the top 20 (just for the sake of argument, there are really 40 in the top 20, etc.). </p>
<p>How many high schools in the country are really even going to have 6 or more candidates matriculating at any of those given schools in the past 3 years? OK, once you’ve gotten Exeter, Andover, Harvard-Westlake, etc out of the way – once you’ve gotten math & science magnet schools out of the way – you’re pretty much talking only a handful of public high schools in this country that would have such a track record. Predominantly the upper middle class ones along the East Coast and suburbs of major cities elsewhere. And likely skewed to the ones that are in physical proximity to the schools in question. I think you’re all kidding one another if you think that the majority of high schools even have had more than occasional representation at these schools. With something like 30,000 hs in this country, it just doesn’t add up. </p>
<p>And yes, these schools are way overrepresented on CC – but they aren’t representative at all, IMO.</p>
<p>But the GC can only p<em>ss OFF the adcom if there is a PREEXISTING RELATIONSHIP to p</em>ss the adcom off over. Come on. The vast majority of hs GC are completely unknown to the elite schools. Assuming 1 GC per high school just for the sake of argument, adcoms can’t know or have personal relationships with 30,000 GC’s.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if this anecdote is helpful or not…</p>
<p>but when one of my sons and I were visiting one of the schools that is probably a “target” on this thread, although definitely not an Ivy or near Ivy, S and I ran into a pleasant gentleman at the elevator (it later turned out he was the admissions dean, who we met at the admissions office later that day) , who asked my son where he was from. When my son gave the name of our town, the man immediately said “XYZ High School?” and when my son said yes, he said “Oh, we really like XYZ High School. The students from your high school have a very good track record on our campus.”</p>
<p>Schools at the IVY level have such stellar acheivers that they probably don’t bother tracking this kind of info. I think that perhaps the schools the next level or two or three down do track this kind of info. Five or six students over three years probably won’t tell admissions much…but a dozen kids over five or six years may. Students with a 3.6 gpa, like my son, from a high school without grade inflation, may thrive academically on campus, whereas some kids (not all) with a 3.6 from a high school with rampant grade inflation may struggle with more rigorous academic demands.</p>
<p>It’s just one more data point rounding out the picture of an applicant…obviously it’s not the dominant consideration but it helps admissions consider a student in a richer context.</p>
<p>PG - I agree. I was only saying what I would pick up as a trend. That’s why I said “I can imagine adcoms forming an opinion with fewer data points.”</p>
<p>^^ deep breathes Pizza mom, deep breathes…You’re getting a little overwrought over factors over which you have no control…
there have some been instances when a GC has ****ed off a IVY admisson’s office by ignoring the ED contract that they knowingly signed. It could have been the first time an applicant from that HS applied ED to that IVY. Ivy’s do let others Ivy’s know who they have accepted ED. If you have any concerns about this at your HS, then ask for the application and matriculation history for students.</p>
<p>LOL! I’m actually not stressed at all, more just laughing! I’m certainly not going to bug the GC’s over the longshot that someone applied ED at an Ivy and broke the contract.</p>
<p>The point I was trying to make is the one that menloparkmom elegantly summarized. The premise of this thread was about the ability and validity of getting our 3.6ers into a T20. We’ve addressed the things we can control, better ECs, retaking standardized tests, massaging the entire application. </p>
<p>We’ve also learned some interesting but painful facts, primarily the “fact” that 40% of T20 classes are already predestined, (Hmom5, I’m not doubting your statistics, I just don’t want to believe them). Now the thread seems to be turning toward the “dark side”, the idea that there is some unseen set of rules and guidelines that we can never hope to know - that adcoms are cross-checking against past students, that colleges may have vendetta’s against certain GCs. We are slipping into the realm of conspiracy theory. </p>
<p>If colleges actually cross-reference individual past performances of other students from a given high school versus current applicants, then your, my, manitori’s, Pizzagirl’s kids won’t be accepted or denied based on their work but on the results of others. It won’t be their 3.6 that decides, it will be someone admitted back in 2000, who graduated with a 2.1 and hasn’t contributed to the alumni fund. If that’s true, a decision on their application will be made based on information that they didn’t contribute to or control. If it’s true, then our 3.6ers have no chance unless some past 3.6er went on to a Rhodes scholarship. I for one refuse to sign up for that neurosis. </p>
<p>A year from now S2 is going to play the cards he dealt himself, if it’s good enough, great, if not well those are the breaks of the game. But we’ll worry about his app; I just think it’s a combination of self-flagellation and excuse building to worry about the kids who went before him, speculating that their work may be a deciding factor in his outcome.</p>
<p>Here is a good read on MIT’s admission process (written a decade ago). “Initiative” is the emphasis I picked up from the article. Just don’t know whether they look for it after they applied the GPA filer :(.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, we’re lucky (?) that colleges get a lot of data points our local programs. At one of my kids’ schools, 34/93 went to USNWR T-20 schools from the class of 2007. In 2008, it’s 35/81 (another 13 I don’t know about). This doesn’t include acceptances @ Tufts, Swat, Williams, Georgetown, Mudd, UMich, Brown, UCB, CMU and Olin. These are matriculation numbers, not acceptances.</p>
<p>boysx3, we had a similar experience at a school. The individual could tell S about grade trends <em>by semester</em> in his program. I have no doubt colleges spend good money analyzing the data we all send them.</p>
<p>We had the situation of a particular Ivy that was upset with our school for many years. No one could get in, even those admitted to HYP. Why? Rumors about broken ED contract, etc. No one knows for sure.</p>
<p>As far as tracking students, I will say that at Harvard the proctors (similar to RAs) are asked to report back to admissions on how their students are doing. </p>
<p>The regional admissions officers at Harvard know their areas and high schools well. I am sure that the regional officer for our high school could name every student who was admitted in the past 20 years. As for the other T20 schools, I couldn’t say.</p>
<p>My son just met a recruiter from Rochester, which was already on his list, and really liked what he heard. I mean really liked, as in, “He called me to tell me how much he liked what he heard.” Called ME. That’s how much he liked it.</p>
<p>I think of Rochester as one of those 40 schools in the top 20. I would be delighted for him to go there, and now I think it’s a little more competitive with the very top schools in his eyes. The open curriculum (or whatever they call it) was the big selling point. He wants to double or triple major, and apparently the lack of core requirements makes that possible in four years.</p>
<p>He also met a recruiter from State U who sounded like an arse, and that’s really unfortunate because I’m forcing him to apply there as a safety. I told him he’s free to pick another school as his safety, but it had better be truly safe, both for admission and cost, and until he comes up with a viable alternative, State U it is.</p>
<p>Which then says to me that my kids’ best strategy is to go ED to the t20 where they are double legacy. Since it’s predestined anyway. I’m counting on ya here, hmom! You said it was guaranteed! LOL.</p>
<p>mantori, I believe that completely as well. And frankly I’m sure developmental admit >>>>> legacy by a long shot. I mean, really, they don’t care if the $1 million donations come from alumni or not, as long as the check clears.</p>
<p>No, she said it was predestined, and as any good Calvinist knows, being predestined is no guarantee. You still have to work at it. (Does anyone understand how that’s supposed to work?)</p>
<p>Well, I’m declaring it here. You are all my witnesses. (Has anyone seen the episode of “The Office” where Michael Scott believes he can declare bankruptcy just by walking into the room and declaring bankruptcy in a loud voice in front of the staff?)</p>
<p>I read that in Muslim countries you can be divorced by declaring “I divorce you!” three times. Bankruptcy should work that way.</p>
<p>Speaking of declaring things—and to really, really digress—when an employee of mine in Chicago decided to quit work to go to the John Marshall Law School, I thought it was funny to tell people that he had “declared Marshall Law.” I thought this was funny for months on end. My poor coworkers.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, that is your best strategy by far. Though do stay realistic. I know my alma mater sends legacy parents a letter after receiving the application letting them know the percentage of legacies that didn’t get it the last year. It’s about 70% at most top schools.</p>