Hello everyone! I hope you are doing well I’m sorry to bother you all, but I’m a recent admit to Berkeley GMP, but I’m still split between Berkeley and Williams College in Massachusetts. I would really love your input from a business perspective, and I’m going to list some pros/cons below very briefly. Thank you so much. I hope you have a wonderful day. I would appreciate any feedback and opinions. It would greatly ease my stress.
Summary: Direct admit into Berkeley Haas (more costly) but set business school → worried if go to Williams (less costly) then it might be harder to break into business as a non-business major (since I am not sure I want to do econ, but I am certainly doing either psych or history/poli sci). Do you need a business degree to work in business?
A little about me: wants to enter into non-profit/management consulting or public service/marketing
Williams
Pros:
Small class sizes (7:1 student-teacher ratio) that is so rare and valuable. You really get to know your professor well, and office hours would be accessible/ well-used, get to know people on first-name basis)
Financial aid (one of the best financial aid programs in the country- covered textbooks, storage, funding for concerts/trips,flights). As a low-income student, I got nearly a full-ride ~ 1k
Freshman Pre-Orientation and Entry System (really helps guide freshmen, has separate orientation for first-Gen students, and with an entry group and JA (basically RA) that hosts events to bond))
High grad school placement rates
Oxford style tutorial options (1 professor- 2 student class options that focus on niche subject)
Winter Study: a month where students can go to school-sponsored internships, learn classes on pass/fail, and just learn for the sake of learning (there’s also really cool travel classes where students have traveled to for example, Greece for a classics course that the school covers for students with financial aid)
Housing: On- campus housing guaranteed for all 4 years (about 60% of freshman have singles)
Cons
Rural: It is located is a very rural area in Massachusetts! To get to big cities like NY and Boston, it would take 1-2 hours by public transit or shuttle. Can feel a little restrictive, especially in turns of internship access and bigger city feel (which I’m used to since I live in a bigger city). The surrounding town is very small and quaint, but there’s no big chains like Target in the immediate vicinity.
Weather: I’m from California There’s a lot of cold weather and snow, and I heard the weather can be harsh in the winter.
Lack of name-brand recognition: My goal is to remain in the west coast post-grad and settle my career in California (Bay Area). Berkeley is a much more recognizable name in the Bay Area, especially for business.
Study abroad opportunities: There’s still some great options, but it is definitely more limited compared to the UC’s extensive list.
Berkeley
Pros:
GMP
Admission into a great program with a global focus which I love (direct entry into Haas)! Small cohort, get to know everyone, and lots of support from “big” and mentors from past cohorts
Direct entry into Haas -Less stress about applying and getting into Haas while in Berkeley so less competitive, one of the best business schools, great job placement
Larger selection of courses
I’m planning to double major or minor in history while at Berkeley. When looking at the course catalog, there’s a wider range of courses available.
Access to SF + urban city
proximity to internships, San Francisco for things to do, lots of diverse food options around
Close to home
About a one hour commute from home, easy to visit friends and family (really important as I’m a big family person), less likely to deal with homesickness (compared to moving to an entirely different state), people from my hs are going to Berk pro and con
Big AAPI community on campus
Compared to Williams as a PWI, Berkeley has a bigger AAPI community and more robust affinity groups (especially for VSA)
Cons
More $ than Williams
Less supportive financial aid, ~7k, no stipend for GMP abroad to London, have to pay for groceries and social expenses abroad out-of-pocket, low- income student
At first, longer adjustment period
First, I have to take summer classes at Berk, adjust to London during freshman fall semester, come back to Berk spring semester where everyone has already made friends on-campus and went through orientation
Class Sizes
Much bigger, less personal class sizes, up to 2,000 students, less of a relationship with prof, office hours will be crowded, problems with registration
Competitive (less inclusive club culture)
I heard some clubs require rounds of interviews, resumes, essays to get in?, lower acceptance rate than the school itself
Thank you so much for reading! I appreciate any comments truly. Have a great day
I have visited both (Williams recently) and enjoyed them both! I have also posted in other threads, but this is my final request for any business-centered advice I would like to work in California (consulting/marketing)
Go to Williams and don’t think about it again. If you want to get into business, start off in management consulting out of Williams. Have econ and math as majors or minors among other things. You will do great! Four-five years later, you can lateral into many business roles that may have been less easy to get to out of Haas.
But this is like picking between Tom Brady at QB…and whoever will replace him this year.
They may be fine and Berkeley is - but Williams is at a level so beyond anything you can imagine.
You can and will get global exposure there, you will be supported/funded into internships, etc.
Your con on Williams #3 is so ridiculously wrong - it’s a pro pro pro.
Also - #4 - so I was checking different schools for my daughter because her trip was cancelled (not enough kids) and we were signing her up for a trip at CWRU (also cancelled - prof visa issue) so I looked at the UC site and they had tons of cancels. So don’t think that what you see is what’s actually happening. Semesters abroad yes - but one off trips not necessarily.
This is like shopping at Nordstrom vs. Wal Mart…for real.
UCB is obviously a great name but - you are talking about the elite of the elite - and it would be crazy not to try (in my opinion)…not to mention, in the end, do you want small and supported or to be a part of a big bureacracy?
If you want a global career, you’ll need to learn to take chances…and that starts with being away from home for 15 or 17 weeks.
I live in an area with quite a few Williams grads. They do VERY well. Also, I think with your goals of non-profit or public service, Williams will be a great fit. Considering it’s your less expensive option and you are low-income, I’d really think about making it work. Just make sure you figure travel into your expenses. The closest airport is Albany NY.
OP, you do realize that Williams is considered a little Ivy?
The problem with being a first gen is you don’t know what you don’t know (I know). UCB is a great school but you’re one among many. At a school like Williams you will get individual attention most other kids dream about.
Counseling, tutoring, professors that want to teach, funding, advising and many other perks. Unless Williams is absolutely a bad fit please take advantage of this opportunity.
There are many, many paths to be successful in business. Attitude, personality and work ethic trump what school you attend and which major you pick.
when I first read teh options I thought Williams, major in Econ, and don’t look back. But then I saw Psych or History and those are not as popular for business hiring.
Given your interest in remaining in the BA for post-grad, I’d recommend Cal if you can swing the $$. As an aside, a double major between Haas and L&S can be difficult and will be of little benefit. Just take a few History classes of interest.
btw: Williams is well known by those that do the hiring.
You posted the same pro-con list 3 weeks ago and despite getting 40 responses, your initial impressions haven’t budged. It seems to me that there’s no point in soliciting advice from yet more strangers if you’re not going to apply the information to your uniquely personal situation.
“BUSINESS” is a massive career category, spanning millions of possibilities and variables. Of course Williams grads succeed in business as do motivated graduates of most every other college.
My son graduated Williams and I from the University of Michigan. Although we both got wonderful educations and found success and satisfaction in our respective careers, I can tell you our college experiences were very very different.
I urge you to consider what each choice has to offer in the context of person you are today. In other words, put your hazy career goals to the side for now(with the assumption that you’ll succeed no matter which you choose) and focus on the educational environment that can best transform “anxious” to “confident”
At this point, days away from the decision deadline, you need to go with the choice that fills you with joy and enthusiasm. No one else can do that for you.
Congratulations on your excellent college options. Either one can lead to a rewarding career in “non-profit/management consulting or public service/marketing.”
I would choose Williams. The smaller classes and supportive faculty will give you a superior academic experience. Also it is the more affordable option, especially compared to the high cost of living in Berkeley and in London. Furthermore many, many Williams alums enjoy success in the business world.
I want to allay your fears about Williamstown’s rural location. Spring Street runs right through the Williams campus and offers a post office, bank, pharmacy, Images Cinema, two bookstores, coffee, a half dozen restaurants, and more. These conveniences are close at hand and most students need little more in the way of urban amenities. Students fill their time with classes, studying, talking with friends, making music, writing for the newspaper, playing sports, hiking in the surrounding hills… In short they are busy! The college provides so many things to do that students can find fulfillment on campus or very nearby.
If you are hankering to shop at Target, it is in Lanesboro 26 minutes away by car, so get to know someone with a car. A Walmart Superstore is closer and the college runs a free shuttle bus there on Sundays.
No, you don’t need to major in business to work in business.
Having “Williams” on your resume is like having “Harvard” on your resume. Harvard doesn’t have undergrad business. It doesn’t need to. Its graduates find jobs in businesses all over the country. Same thing with Williams.
(Then after 4-5 years working in businesses, their company pays for them to complete an MBA.)
Also, why not study Economics (a business major has to take a few Economics classes BTW)? You could combine Economics&Poli Sci. Or Poli Sci and Statistics.
Excellent combinations.
BTW if you want to work in Marketing, you don’t major in Marketing (a business major that yields very low salaries) but in Statistics or Data Science.
Considering the cost of living in London then in Berkeley, which would severely limit your enjoyment &even day-to-day living (inflation has been terrible in GB this year, so whatever former London students told you, it’s way worse now) that’d be the straw that breaks the camel’s back… to me it’s a no-brainer. = Williams.
It really is a bit of comparing apples and oranges. Top Liberal arts college and education vs a large public university in a metro area with excellent undergraduate business program. Yes, you can get excellent career opportunities in business out of Williams ( brand is excellent) but I think it is also true that the scale/depth of West coast specific marketing and consulting opportunities may be more plentiful and easier to access out of Haas. Are you interested in a liberal arts education (econ, finance, stats) or are you more energized about taking more pre-professional marketing and corporate strategy classes?
Unless there’s something about the LAC experience that doesn’t appeal to you, go to Williams and don’t look back. It’s an amazing opportunity. Your #3-4 on the “cons” list for Williams simply aren’t true. Williams has plenty of name recognition as one of the top 2 or 3 LACs in the country and an unbelievable alumni network nationwide. As to study abroad, if you don’t find what you’re looking for on the Williams-sponsored list of opportunities, they’ll help place you in a program run by another school (this is a very common practice), so you’re not limited by Williams programs. As far as weather is concerned, this is not an issue. I grew up in Los Angeles and have not lived in a warm-weather climate since high school. Buy a coat, and you’ll be fine (also: after your first New England autumn, you’ll never want to live in California again. Or maybe that’s just me.). Also, re: #1 on your list – there’s a lot of what you’re looking for within a stone’s throw from Williamstown (neighboring North Adams is bigger), so you’re not as far from Target as you think.
There’s a reason why the most prestigious schools in the country don’t offer undergrad business programs – it’s because it’s much better to major in something else as an undergrad and then get some work experience and follow that with an MBA. You can find any number of articles on this topic through a simple Google search, but you can start with this recent article from the Harvard Business Review: Yes, Employers Do Value Liberal Arts Degrees
Berkeley is great and a fantastic admit, and if you want the big-university experience, it might be a better fit. But otherwise, do not pass up Williams.
(The main issue is that UCB was more expensive to an unaffordable level for this low-income student - the mandatory 1st semester in London alone is likely to cause debt or food insecurity.
The second issue is that the worry one has trouble finding a job in business with a Williams degree is unfounded.)
If OP picked UCB I hope he’ll return to give news. I really worry about the financial aspect for them.
I’m sorry to bother you all, but I’m a recent admit to Berkeley GMP, but I’m still split between Berkeley and Williams College in Massachusetts. I would really love your input from a business perspective, and I’m going to list some pros/cons below very briefly. Thank you so much. I hope you have a wonderful day. I would appreciate any feedback and opinions. It would greatly ease my stress.
There’s a lot of cold weather and snow, and I heard the weather can be harsh in the winter.