Undergrad major

OK, I am basically going crazy with this so somebody pls help?
I am basically interested in medical research, genetics, neuroscience etc, and always have been- I want to research on alzheimer’s disease, parkinsons etc. Pharma is nice too- basically biochem areas- some specialties of medicine that I’m interested in too, like neuro and pathology.
I love chem, like bio (when related to human systems) detest physics, am ok with maths, but am average at it. Altho I’ve never studied it in HS, I am really, really interested in psychology too.
I’m good at academics, but I am NOT good at handling too many extracurriculars along with studies.
My plan for now- is medicine, then maybe academic medicine? However, I’m not completely or 100% sure about medicine yet.
BUT I cannot decide what to major in for undergrad. I’ve given up the idea of a BS in biology (is biochem a better option?) especially after getting to know that 65% of post-docs are in the life sciences. My other options are chemistry, bioengineering, or bme. My parents think that bioengineering/bme is a better option in case, I choose not to pursue a career in medicine (or don’t get accepted), I’m worried that this may kill my gpa( especially since I’m not good at maths/physics)- on the other hand, I’ll have a degree more marketable than biology. I would love to major in biochem/chem, but the job prospects don’t seem very good, even after graduate school. I am really, really confused and would truly appreciate advice- any other ideas for majors (within my interests) are ok too.
Also, out of curiosity, is it feasible for premeds to double major?

Just get better at math / physics if you believe that you are not good at them and it prevents you from studying engineering (that is if you want studying engineering). Everybody has something that they are not good at. This is NOT a reason for getting grade below A, not at all. If you want engineering and want medicine, just do the work and get those As to get high college GPA.
"Also, out of curiosity, is it feasible for premeds to double major? " - ALL of D’s pre-med friends graduated with combo of major(s) / minor (s), but none of them were in engineering. Examples: Zoology (major) / Art (minor), triple major - Zoology / Spanish / Latin Study, Zoology major / Music Composition minor (my D.). D. actually had 2 minors, but had to drop one being 2 classes short of completion.

Anything is possible, but I do not know if you could combine engineering with other major / minor. All around D. also had jobs and had most ECs done during school year. The benefits of it - nice, free summer.

In general, when you face any challenges, cool down and develop a plan. No reason to go crazy and without a plan that has little steps on how to accomplish your ultimate goal (any goal!), challenges tend to overwhelm us (everybody!). You are not an exception here. So, this is my biggest advice which I also repeated numerous times to my D. However, this plan should not be an obstacle is trying something that is not in your plan. Being open and spontaneous is part of life. Nobody can tell you if it is feasible for YOU to be a pre-med and double major. Just try and see how you handle it. Does not work, drop one. Having 2 minors was OK for my D. until one of the Med. Schools added requirements after D. applied. So, she had to drop one of her minors to take classes to satisfy additional requirements. Ironically, while she was accepted there, she turn down this Med. School. And here is another advice - never regret what you have done in a past, cannot turn time back, cannot change what you did, so just learn from your experience.

Relax. I think you should choose a major that you know you can excel in, and that has all those courses you mentioned that interest you, from psychology to life sciences – a major such as neuroscience. Depending on the university you attend, there should be plenty of options for how to set up a major and minor (or interdisciplinary major or double major) to explore all the areas of interest to you. THEN you can decide what to do for graduate school and your career.

You could go to medical school with any bachelor’s degree. You could also get a master’s degree in engineering and become an engineer that way – you don’t have to have a bachelor’s degree in engineering. You can get a master’s in bioinformatics, genetics or genetic counseling, landscape architecture, documentary film-making, education (to become a teacher), medical illustration or whatever else interests you at that point. You could also pursue a PhD and go after a research career, or become a counselor or psychologist. You could go to a graduate program to become a physical therapist or many other options.

Most graduate degree programs do not require a specific major to enter them – they do require a high GPA usually and high standardized test scores, a showing of interest, and a few courses as a foundation, some of which you can typically take as a graduate student.

In addition to graduate degree programs, there are numerous “certifications” out there that you can study for on your own and take exams to become certified or qualified for a particular job. For example, with a science bachelor’s degree, you can take the patent agent exam and become a patent officer and work on patents, either for the government, a corporation or a law firm assisting attorneys.

Even without certifications or a graduate degree, you will have options. You could write about science for science magazines and news websites, for example. You could sell scientific products. You could learn to program (with free courses line) and develop science apps. You will only be limited by your imagination.

Yes, the job market seems depressing and competition seems fierce – for almost all majors. And if you read up on doctors, you’ll find that many are leaving that profession as well or certain areas of practice because of health insurance developments and liability. You can worry about those things later. Right now, focus on sharpening your strengths and pursuing your interests, and think creatively about the possibilities of where they can lead.

Lots of premeds major in nonSTEM subjects. Major in whatever you like - just make sure you complete the pre-med requirements. Bioengineering? Often the harder road if you are trying to keep your GPA up and often it leaves little room to explore other areas, especially if you are also doing pre-med requirements. Doing engineering just to be sure you have a job? Not a good idea unless being an engineer sounds like what you’d enjoy doing. I suggest you go with the life sciences that you seem to like and resolve that you will probably need to get additional training - either graduate school or other certification if med school doesn’t work out. And remember that there are many medical industry jobs that don’t require you to be a doctor: public health, physicians assistant, health care management, epidemiology, to toss a few off the top of my head.

I am interested in public health and epidemiology (haven’t had much exposure tho, obv)- but what is the job outlook?
Also, I have already mentioned that I am interested in biomedical research, biochemistry and neuroscience- that is my end goal, as of now- can bioengineering/bme help me in that? There are some parts I like of bme, but other parts I don’t like so much :/. Also, since the programs vary SO much, college to college, I can’t really understand what kind of careers they will lead me to. Additionally, I should mention that I am interested in computer science too, tho I’ve had very little exposure to it. Would applying to bme/bioengineering programs, then dropping it if I don’t like it and switching to chem, be a good idea? I’ve asked on CC before about this, but didn’t get a clear answer. Neuroscience would def be a good major, but I think it will really limit my options if I want to do something OTHER than neuroscience in the future :confused:
Also- it would be nice if this came from someone in the field- I’ve heard that academia is a horrible place to be for biomedical scientists nowadays- but how is industry? (For PhDs, I mean) And is getting a position at places like M.D. Anderson really difficult?

There will always be jobs in public health, especially with non-profit/charitable organizations. These jobs will not be research oriented jobs but more a down-in-the-trenches program/grant administration or management type jobs.

Epidemiology is going to depend more on your area of training/expertise. A MPH isn’t going to get into blood & guts epidemiology; that requires a PhD and specialized expertise. A MS or PhD in biostatistics is going to be highly employable but it’s a pretty dry and technical field. Lots of numbers crunching and restrospective data analysis.

Academia isn’t terrible place to be! If you want to do basic research, it’s a great place to be. But getting into academia is extremely difficult in the current market. There’s been marked decrease in NIH and NSF funding by Congress over the past 8+ years concurrent with dozens (hundreds?) of grad programs churning huge classes of new PhDs every year. The job market for new biomed/bioscience PhDs has been bad for the past 2 decades.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/the-phd-bust-americas-awful-market-for-young-scientists-in-7-charts/273339/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-pushes-for-more-scientists-but-the-jobs-arent-there/2012/07/07/gJQAZJpQUW_story.html

Industrial jobs aren’t going to be glamor jobs. They aren’t even going to jobs at small non-profit biomed research labs (like the one I work at-- BTW, our shop has been laying off not just support staff but full time researchers for the past 5 years). Mostly they going to be at small biotech companies who breed designer mice for other research labs or study the bacterial resistance of various materials used for contact lenses. Or maybe at a smaller firm that does animal lab management for other organizations. Or maybe at a subcontractor who runs early phase clinical trials for big name drug manufacturers. Or they’re going to be at agricultural chemical companies studying pesticide resistance mechanisms in cotton weevils. Or at petrochemical companies trying to find way to biologically breakdown toxic byproducts from oil fracking. (BTW, I know bioscience PhDs who actually do all of the jobs described above. All graduated from well known and well respected programs.)

Those are what industrial jobs for bio PhDs look like.

Getting a research job at MD Anderson? Even getting a research post-doc at MD Anderson? You need to be a rock star!

(Well, unless you plan to work there as a lab tech/technical support staff.)

Whatever you study, having languages seems to be a big plus for my resident D. She was assigned her own patients and 3 of them speak / understand Spanish only, and she just got a new patient who can speak English but was not able to explain everything in English. D. was able to use her other foreign language with this new patient. D. said that the translation services are available but she notices discrepancies in translation. Do not have to be fluent, but some degree of fluency in few languages will provide a great advantage.

OK, I have a small and pretty stupid question,but since so many of you have D/S in medicine, I thought you guys might be able to help out. I really, really love to travel, and I want to travel around the world- how feasible is that when you’re a doctor? And I’m not just talking about AFTER becoming a doctor, but the long training period too- undergrad, med school, residency, etc. (other than financial problems, of course) And how about continuing with other hobbies/activities like music, dance etc? Is that feasible, and to what extent? Thanks for the help, everybody! :slight_smile:

Travel (not considering finances):

Are we talking extended periods or like a 2 week vacation?

Certainly you don’t need to spend every day of your summer/winter breaks in college doing pre-med stuff (especially winter break - only 1 winter break did I do any sort of work). The summer before medical school is completely open.

As a med student, you can similarly travel during winter break and a short vacation during sumer between M1 and M2. After M2, depending on how your medical school is set up and how much time you need to study for USMLE Step 1 you could have a summer vacation as little as one weekend and as much as 6 weeks. Once M3 starts you should get a few weeks of vacation throughout the year. The end of M4 is another prime window where you’ll easily have 1 month to travel.

After med school, the summer before residency is prime travel time. Then residency vacations are going to depend on your program/how they handle it. Usually when my friends have vacation time they travel.

If they are important to you, you’ll find a way.

RE: traveling during pre-med and med school.

IWBB covered it pretty well, but the timing and amount of vacation time during med school is highly school dependent. But basically except for 4-10 weeks off between MS1 and MS2, you won’t get a significant amount of time off until your 4th year. (Significant means >1 week)

MS4 students have a good deal of control over their schedules since they can pick & choose what electives to take and how to schedule them…….but residency interviewing takes 2-3 months so many MS4s schedule only light or no rotations during that time. Still if you’re clever and lucky, you can get a couple of weeks between rotations after you finish interviews to travel.

Also the timing of the start of residency varies a great deal by program and specialty. D1 had to report to her residency program no later than June 8 this year. Because she graduated in early May, she was able to take a nice 2 week vacation before she had to move, but other students in her program reported straight after graduation, with no time off in-between.

Every residency program will give its residents vacation, but the timing and amount is highly variable. (Usually between 2 and 4 weeks annually, but no guarantees that you’ll get off any of those weeks off consecutively.)

As for international travel during residency–there are some programs that offer international electives. Not quite a vacation since you’ll be working during your time in another country, but you won’t be working 24/7 so you have time to see the sights.


As for hobbies--as IWBB said if it's important to you, you'll find the time. Both of my kidlets have managed to sustain a myriad of creative and outdoor hobbies during med school and residency.

Other hobbies -
D. was able to finish Intermediate Level of Medical Spanish (outside of Med. School) while at Med. School. She also participated in the fundraiser “Doc. Opera” where she played few songs on the keyboard in a band - she did it for the first 2 years. Third year rotations do not leave much of the spare time for anything, and she also needed to study for Step 1. Also, after the MS1, D. traveled to the poor region of the Peru with the group of MD’s and other med. students. It was more applicants than spots, she was selected, again, because of her Spanish as they were looking for translators. This experience was great (I believe 6 weeks long, not sure), students actually participated in the medical care and that was very rewarding. Currently, as a first year resident, she wished that she had her baby grand to play piano, but her place does not have room for that. She has to wait for the bigger and more permanent place of residence. Sometime though she attends the Art sessions with her residents friends where they can paint for couple hours. She loves these.

She had traveled plenty in her life though, much more than average adult, including some exotic and very far away places and had chances to use and improve her languages…

Does your school offer biotechnology