I didn’t know where exactly to put this - it’s not directly relating to grad school, as I’m still in high school and obviously this is far future stuff, and a lot of it has to do with my undergrad college search.
I’ve always loved creative writing, and it’s been a goal of mine to one day enter into an MFA creative writing program (my dream of course is one of the legendary ones - Iowa, etc). Writing in general is not the most, er, lucrative field, and I recognize that, so I want to minimize the costs of my undergrad degree. I’ll probably turn down some higher ranked private schools to go to an in state school and graduate with no debt (an opportunity I’m very privileged to have). I’ve looked at all the fin aid calculators, so while I’m still applying to a bunch of privates, short of a huge merit scholarship there won’t be many surprises.
My question: how much does the name of your undergrad school matter in admissions to grad programs, specifically an MFA type thing? I very well might change my mind about my future while in undergrad, so what about other grad programs (law, etc). Can doing very well in a less widely know state school make up for not having the expensive elite name? (I’m in NY, so it’ll probably be Geneseo, Binghamton, or Hunter, if that matters).
Doubt undergrad selectivity matters at all. I’ve heard MFAs in general are really losing popularity, so I’m assuming selectivity is not an issue. My knowledge is only based on what I’ve read about James Franco so…
The question I would ask myself is - what additional value would an MFA give you vs. being a writer without an MFA? Once you have determined that it will make your college selection much easier.
That’s a very fair point, and an MFA’s value is definitely a debate a in the writing world. But even if I wanted to just go to undergrad and be a writer - isn’t taking out more debt than necessary still a bad idea? I don’t want to feel pressured to major in something that makes a lot straight out of college so I can pay back loans. Hell, a lot of writers didn’t even go to college (not my gameplan, but just to illustrate how random and unstable the arts can be).
If at all possible, I’d recommend you consider your undergraduate education with an approach similar to that which you anticipate at the time of your MFA:
Do not go into debt for a name school for creative writing. Most of what you will learn in creative writing is what you teach yourself and what your fellow writers will teach you. That doesn't mean there's no value in majoring in creative writing. Far from it, but there's also no need to take creative writing classes, as others have pointed out. They don't make you a writer. They won't make you a successful writer. Only writing a lot will do that.
Colleges are terrific for giving you four years of writing practice. Writing practice will eventually turn you into a real author. They also give you an historic understanding of literature, etc. They are also fun. You will also make connections.
Definitely go into writing and do what makes you happy. Be prepared to do a lot of writing to learn the craft. You may need a day job. Learn to love your day job; it will keep your ideas fresh. If you take statistics alongside your writing classes, you can get a lucrative day job, for example, to hold you while you're perfecting your craft.
The classes at colleges tend not to teach you technique per se. They often don't focus on how to construct plot, how to nail your dialogue, what is a plot point and should we care? People often graduate with MFAs and still cannot construct a plot. In colleges writing classes are often set up to teach you how to write the genre we tend to call "literary", which is fine, but just be clear what you're getting into. To teach this, they tend to use the workshop method as developed at Iowa. Again, this is fine, but just be clear what you are getting into. If you want to learn how to construct a plot, what the marketplace looks like from the seat of a publisher's desk, etc, then usually you need to look outside of college programs.
You seem to be smart about how little creative writing makes at least at first, but it's also possible to make lots of money. It depends on how you approach your art and craft--and your career. If you approach it like a craft and expand your definition of writing beyond what's usually taught in colleges, then you have a good chance of earning a living at fiction.
Literary creative writing careers usually run like this: publish in journals 1-3 stories; write 2 novels. They may or may not sell that well, because you're still learning your chops. Book 3 needs to be a break-out book or you have to struggle with being labeled someone who can't sell. Like it or not publishing houses typically will look at your sales figures more critically at this point with a critical eye. This is beyond the ten-year mark out of college, usually. So be prepared.
Many writers look beyond literary writing for their careers to start paying, because there is real money to be had if done intelligently and if you hone your writing chops. Genre fiction is as difficult writing as any, the difference is that it has a ready market. That's why it sells. Literary has a smaller market, that's why the sales are smaller. Think about what other genres, beyond literary, that you enjoyed. What books made you love writing beyond Jane Austen and Mark Twain? See if you can figure out how to write in those genres. Remember: Mark Twain was not literary in his day. He was popular fiction. Ditto Dickens. Ditto Shakespeare, although he was so popular that the Queen commissioned his works, so there's that. You know, great gig if you can get it.
To learn how to plot, how to construct dialogue, and the other things that colleges tend not to teach, there are four sources beyond practicing at home. 1) Gotham Writers Workshop, which has good online classes in various genres. Start with any course that appeals to you. Learn story structure. It's fundamental to all of the genres; 2) Online resources: Writers Helping Writers (http://writershelpingwriters.net/author/angela/) is a great source of info for how to do things, for example. Exactly how do you show not tell? There are many other online how-to write pages; 3) attend writing conferences in your chosen genre. Fantasy conferences will teach you world building, for example, and character development. Children's conferences will teach you the precision of picture-book writing, etc. Historical conferences will help you with research and keeping the facts pared down to support the plot, etc. 4) take part in online fan fiction and role-playing fiction writing. There's really no faster way to learn how to write, IMHO, currently available than doing it online with feedback in real time. You do this in real time, with real people (so it's fun), and you rise in the hierarchy depending on how well you create fiction in real time. And it's free. And every writer needs about 10-years of practice to really start to know what they're doing. This is a great way to get those 10 years in starting now. Best of luck as you move forward in your career.
You may also want to use your undergraduate as a ‘backup’ plan - double major in something marketable and writing. Because of the extreme unlikelihood of success as a creative writer and the low value add of an MFA, I would try to blend something else with your writing skills - game design, marketing, CS, etc. etc. - communication skills are a huge plus when combined with something else.
That being said, I know several successful writers. It just is not easy and you have to eat. It also is a source for stories, ideas, and experiences that you would not get as a writer alone.
@Dustyfeathers - Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to write that helpful post! I love Writers Helping Writers, and I’d heard a lot about Gotham (I live nearby) and I’m very interested in it. I make sure to carve out some time every night to write, as I have a suspicion that discipline and chutzpah gets you a lot father than even the best college. I’ve been published multiple times, won a bunch of awards, etc - I guess my gameplan is to just keep on doing what I’m doing, no matter where I go.
The funny thing is I have pretty clear goals for my far future, but not for undergrad. It’s not that I’m longing for the fancier schools, it’s just that I worry getting the “connections” or “alumni network” or whatever else they talk about in all those pamphlets they send me is really something that can make or break you. Regardless, if the choice is between tons of debt or no debt, it’s not really a choice at all - whatever happens, I’ll give it my best.
@TooOld4School - The double major is something my parents have mentioned a lot, and I think it’s a very good idea. I’ve taken CS and really enjoyed it, and of course there are a lot of other practical majors that work well alongside writing. (Oh, and all my relatives constantly tell me ‘law is a fascinating field’. I think they’re not too enthusiastic on the whole starving artist thing, either . . . )
If your goal is to be self-supporting as a fiction writer, then you have the right idea. The world’s most famous writers got there not through what school they attended. They got there by writing a lot. The connections help if you want your work to be seen but connections do not make the sale. Only if your work is viewed as making money for the publishing house will it sell, because the editor, before purchasing your work, needs to first be able to sell it to her sales team. If the sales team doesn’t buy it, then she can’t either. In other words, you need to put on the goggles of what the sales team wants to see. The sales team wears the goggles of what they can pitch in 30 seconds per book to major bookstores, like Barnes and Noble. Attending writing conferences can help with that. Interning at publishers or agent offices can help with that. Walking through Barnes and Noble can help with that. What books are facing out on the shelves? Those are the ones that B&N and the publisher are promoting. Why? Read the blurb on the back describing the plot. Make it a science to learn to construct that sort of plot and summarized it that neatly. Think of yourself as a brand. (Which is why some authors have various pen names, one for each type of writing they do.) Figure out your brand. It’s a business as much as an art.
For day jobs, any job that won’t wear you out as a WRITER is a good idea. Administrative jobs are good. Coding as suggested above might be good if it uses a different part of your brain. Ideally you want something with steady hours and decent money so that you can plan your writing accordingly. You will want a set time every day reserved for writing. You may want to research what other day jobs writers have held: patent office admin; high school english teacher; police officer; lawyer; ship captain; pharmacy assistant; movie house worker; night watchman etc.
Cherish your coursework at college for what else it can teach you: what can populate your fiction? You will need to understand economics, history, science, human nature and psychology, etc. In other words, the entire liberal arts curriculum.
I make my living as a writer. I have a BS and an MA… neither of which are in writing/English/Lit/related. Most of my writer friends also did not major in writing.
Find the college that suits your life and needs now. Don’t worry about the name as much as you worry about whether you can afford it and whether you’ll be happy there. Don’t worry about grad school right now. And know that if you do decide to pursue an advanced degree in writing, what’s going to matter most is – wait for it – the quality of your writing.
Go do what makes you happy. If writing is part of that, great! Write a blog, submit to contests and magazines, and once you’re in college, join their paper or literary mag, etc. Breathe. Keep writing. You’ll figure it out.
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