Undergrad Prestige vs. Course Difficulty

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Okay, so from what I've gathered, going to an academically prestigious undergraduate school may give you an advantage in the admissions process. This is supposedly due to the fact that med schools know it is harder to get 3.5 at Harvard than at Ohio State, since most courses are more difficult or have hard curves.</p>

<p>However, advice has also been given that says "don't take upper-level courses if you don't have to, since they could wreck your GPA." But if med school adcoms take course difficulty into account when looking at your GPA from your respective school, wouldn't they take the same into account if you were taking all upper-level courses your freshman year when comparing you to someone who took all the intro-level courses at the same univ.?</p>

<p>It doesn't make sense that undergrad prestige would give one an advantage, while course difficulty would not. Say we have this situation:</p>

<h1>1: Harvard student has a 3.5, started out in intro level bio, physics, chemistry, organic chem, english, etc.</h1>

<h1>2: OSU student has a 3.5, started out in intro level of pre-med reqs as well.</h1>

<h1>3: OSU student has a 3.5, started out in Bio II for majors, Physics II, Honors Chemistry, English II, etc.</h1>

<p>Which student has the biggest advantage? (I understand that even our most experienced posters might not know the answer, but even speculations or thinking out loud will be helpful) Does student #3 even have an advantage over #2, or do adcoms seriously not look at course difficulty? Obviously they don't know if Physiology is more or less difficult than Molecular Biology, but surely they can tell that Intro to Biology is not as hard as any course designed for majors in their second or third year.</p>

2

<p>Whether prestige matters is hotly disputed. The consensus - which I agree with - seems to be that something matters, and this X factor is often but not always higher at high prestige schools. Whatever it is, however, it is CERTAINLY not a compensator for grade deflation, which is what your "3.5 at Harvard" comment would suggest. As previous examples (a thread that I started comparing Stanford, Duke, MIT and Case) demonstrate, it often seems, in fact, to work in reverse.</p>

<p>Now, I will say this. Even if you pretended that prestige mattered - i.e. Harvard kids had huge advantages over OSU - it would still be possible for course difficulty to not matter. The reason is that course difficulty would require a lot more work - digging through the courses, assessing difficulty, etc. - for the adcoms than simply using the "branding" associated with the undergraduate institution.</p>

3

<p>You're assuming a more prestigous school is more difficult than a less prestigous school. This is not always true.</p>

4

<p>"This is supposedly due to the fact that med schools know it is harder to get 3.5 at Harvard than at Ohio State"</p>

<p>Isn't there crazy grade inflation at harvard tho?</p>

5

<p>From what I understand, the grade inflation at Harvard is more like "it's hard to flunk out," not "everybody in every class gets an A." And yes, it's true that it might be easier to get a high GPA at more prestigious schools due to grade inflation or whatever, but then that leads to the question of why do adcoms give preference to prestige? I realize it's the "pre-sorted" idea of, Harvard kids are "all" exceptional and OSU kids are mostly not, but would adcoms put a little more effort into the application process? A simple look at MCAT scores and extracurricular activities would be just as telling as the undergrad you were accepted to.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
A simple look at MCAT scores and extracurricular activities would be just as telling as the undergrad you were accepted to.

[/quote]
And they do take a simple look at those two things, too.</p>

<p>Again, there is some X factor associated with schools such that some schools do much better than others; among prestigious schools, many but not all of them do "well" in this regard.</p>

<p>I'll say it again: the issue at hand is most certainly NOT a compensator for grade deflation. The numbers I've seen make that very, very clear.</p>

7

<p>"Again, there is some X factor associated with schools such that some schools do much better than others; among prestigious schools, many but not all of them do "well" in this regard."</p>

<p>Would you say, then, that prestigious schools' higher acceptance rate is not due to the "impressiveness" of their name but a combination of their superior advising, course preparation, student motivation/competition, etc.? I have gathered from threads in the past that the name alone might impress the adcoms enough to tip the scales to the Ivy Leaguer (all other criteria being equal).</p>

8

<p>I'm not sure quite what it is, to be honest. I would have thought name recognition would matter, except that the more prestigious schools (i.e. the more selective ones) do not universally perform better.</p>

<p>The point is that it's not related to grade inflation and therefore the parallel to coursework can't be made.</p>

9

<p>can lower MCAT scores and a higher GPA from a prestigious school indicate grade inflation?<br>
All factors, but the school and MCAT, remaining similar/same ...
where would the needle tip?,...
prestigious school --lower MCAT say 34, or a relatively less prestigious one---higher MCAT say 38, (v,v,v hypothetically)</p>

10

<p>4 points on the MCAT will compensate for just about any other advantage you can think of.</p>

<p>(Obvious exceptions for race and geography.)</p>

11

<p>If you think 34 on the MCAT is low, you need a nice reality check. Most people are lucky to get over a 30, let alone a 30.</p>

12

<p>Of course, a "low" MCAT score depends on what kind of schools you are going to apply to.</p>

<p>Regardless, TTH, upon a second reading, I think you have three questions:</p>

<p>1.) "Can we deduce that a school has grade inflation if its average grades are high and its average MCAT scores are low?" Perhaps, yes, at least in theory. There might be other factors, such as courses which are hard but do not adequately prepare one for MCAT subjects.</p>

<p>2.) "Can a prestigious school tip the scales in your favor?" Yes, probably, although nobody's really quite certain on this. Regardless, it wouldn't be "prestige", anyway, so much as some strange X-factor. Certainly we do see some schools outperforming others in general while controlling for GPA and selectivity. I haven't managed to study it while controlling for MCAT score, so I can't say this with certainty, but my guess is that the same logic would hold.</p>

<p>3.) "How big a tip would this be?" Probably quite minimal, and certainly nothing near the range of four points on the MCAT. If I had to hazard a speculation, I'd say "good schools" - remember, this is not quite the same thing as "prestigious schools" - might be worth somewhere between one and two points more than "bad schools".</p>

13

<p>From what I've been told regarding the topic of undergraduate prestige, it really doesn't matter where you do your undergraduate education (granted your institution provides the opportunities, such as undergraduate research, that are required to get into med school). Students in schools like Harvard tend to fare better in the admissions process because Harvard has more of those high-achieving, ambitious individuals than any other school. This doesn't mean that a similar student from a state school can't do just as well.</p>

14

<p>isnt 15 the highest score on MCAT?</p>

15

<p>Yes, but there are 3 sections that are scored up to 15 each. So people sum the three and get a possile top score of 45 (which is almost unheard of in reality). Med schools tend to be more interested in the score in each section, wanting each to be at least 9. So you cannot really balance a 7 in one section with a 14 in another.</p>

16

<p>I dont think anyone has ever received a 45. Very very few if any 44's also.</p>

17

<p>There was a 45 five or six years back, rumors say.</p>

<p>If I remember correctly, the max on the last four administrations have been 42, 42, 43, and then I don't know the most recent April.</p>

18

<p>WHat materials and books do you suggest freshmans should use? Printons? Petersons? our there real test out?</p>

19

<p>Freshmen should not worry about the MCAT.</p>

20

<p>Unless you are taking it after soph year. At which case I recommend just using a book to go over what you have done. For example use the exam krackers books and if you have taken chem and bio freshmen year read through those books once mid summer to re-remember everything. Then don't worry about it till end of soph year when test time starts approaching.</p>