<p>Does anyone know if the acceptance rate for uchicago undergrads into uchicago med school is higher than for outside schools?</p>
<p>FWIW, those types of statistics can be pretty hard to dig up, they tend not to be publicly released. </p>
<p>JT</p>
<p>If you are an admitted student, you should be able to call the pre-health office and have them discuss the numbers with you. They do keep them, as the AMA generates them for every college.</p>
<p>As posted on another thread, this is what the University says about that:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Based on the proportion of the graduating class, the University of Chicago consistently ranks among the top universities nationally for the percentage of applicants to medical schools who eventually enroll in a medical program. This level of success is a testament both to the strength of the academic preparation that a Chicago education provides and to the tremendous advising resources that Chicago makes available to all students interested in applying to medical school.
[/quote]
<p>Also see: <a href="https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.e...el3.asp?id=400%5B/url%5D">https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.e...el3.asp?id=400</a></p>
<p>I would just like to clarify, I was not saying in the other post that UChicago’s medical school admissions rate is relatively poor (clearly it is quite strong), rather that the objective number crunch for a medical school spot faced by a graduate - of any elite college - is strikely poor compared to other fields. If you graudate with honors from UChicago and apply to law school, you have a 99% chance of getting into an ABA accredited JD program, and very high chance of getting into a top 25 program if you don’t bomb the LSAT. Contrasting this with people who have a 3.25 and get iced out of any MD program is quite striking.</p>
<p>A 3.25 GPA will put one at a real disadvantage for med school. Often med school bound folks find ways to bolster the GPA, taking the calc 131 series even though placement suggests a higher level, taking summer chemistry and o'chem "year programs" elsewhere, carefully choosing Core courses, etc. S1 knows many pre-meds, and some do this, though many do not. It begs the question, however, of why those individuals chose Chicago to begin with?</p>
<p>I think there are a lot of pre-meds who come to Chicago with a genuine love of knowledge and a thirst to do the hard work it takes to the succeed intellectually, but at the same time find themselves in a field where only GPA+MCAT+culturally correct ECs matter. Unfortunately, more often than not the two can be diametrically opposed, particularly so at UChicago. Really, it is not so much the students themselves but an endemic problem with the unnuanced way medical schools run their admissions offices. Many pre-meds would prefer not to do redundant math problem sets they saw as seniors, waste countless hundreds of hours raising their standardized test scores by a handful of points, or engaging in volunteer or lab activities they only have a procedural interest in. But are they willing to give up their life calling for a little more demanding calculus course, to attend some additional cultural / social events on the weekends, or be in with the EC group that excites them? The answer for the majority is clearly no.</p>
<p>UCA,</p>
<p>Good summary. I know of one "classic" chicago student, last quarter senior, spending all her time this month in a lab. No social life to speak of right now. Why? Finishing the lab work for her senior thesis. Does she "need" to do this? Not really, but she wants to have publishable results, not just results good enough for the senior thesis. (yes, she's pre-med, in the sense that she may apply to med school some day).</p>
<p>In other words, the kid that focuses on what they themselves can do first and foremost is the kid that will be happiest at UofC. And these kids will do very well at the place.</p>
<p>OTOH, if your goal is mostly to do just enough to get into med school, or if your goal is first and foremost high GPA (maybe because you think the GPA will be your ticket to med school?), then other places may be a better fit.</p>
<p>The truth is that no one that will speak on the record with data, will speak of med school admissions success at UofC. UCA takes a more skeptical view, and it may be correct. The pre-med advisors are more optimistic. But we just don't know if a student is helped or hindered by the grading policies of the place.</p>
<p>idad, uca, and newmassdad, Thank you for getting to the heart of the matter. So many high school seniors seem to miss the idea of Chicago ( or college in general) and its culture of learning and thinking for the joy and value found there. Wondering about rank and an undergrad degree that is going to give one the wow factor for a high flying job, or easy access to another degree, skips over 4 important years.
It's about choosing a school that will work for you. Your future will not be blocked or magically opened just because of its rank or grading system. It's about following your interests and finding new ones. My older son is in a job that didn't exist when he was in HS. Who knows what the future holds? Just learn so that you can take advantage of, and contribute to, the future.</p>
<p>As a premed I have to choose my core classes carefully, never picking a professor who is known to grade very harshly. At the same time, however, I am glad that I am getting the opportunity to study the subjects that HUM and SOC have to offer. At most universities it might be difficult for a premed to get through all their graduation requirements, premed requirements, as well as major requirements while still allowing room for social sciences and humanities. Chicago allows me to do this, which is among the reasons why I chose to come to college here.</p>
<p>@newmassdad</p>
<p>"The good news is that the success of
graduates of the College in gaining
admission to professional schools is
excellent. For example, about 80 to 90
applicants from the College
matriculate to allopathic medical
schools each year. This
accomplishment places the College
firmly in the top ten schools nationally
for medical school matriculate’s as a
function of undergraduate enrollment
size. The success of applicants from
the College to other types of
professional schools in the health
professions is similar."</p>
<p><a href="http://chicagogps.uchicago.edu/health/HPHandbook.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://chicagogps.uchicago.edu/health/HPHandbook.pdf</a>
Page 33</p>
<p>Is this the kind of statistic you are looking for?</p>
<p>From the same publication, perhaps a little more informative when considered with the quote above:
[quote]
In 2006, the national average GPA of those matriculating to allopathic medical schools was 3.64 with an MCAT of 28.7; from the College, 3.50 with an MCAT of 30.2. This clearly indicates that the schools appreciate and understand the rigor of the curriculum you have experienced here. (p.33)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Bear in mind that many medical schools use first-pass screening algorithms that take into account GPA/MCAT + points for "intangibles" .</p>
<p>While getting a stellar MCAT score will not "save" you from a very low GPA -- it can definitely help if you are more borderline.</p>
<p>And that is a great point, notsomuch, many students feel they are locked into majoring in the sciences due to a large pre-med course commitment to get into med school. As there is a definite move to attract non-science majors to med school (e.g. more well-rounded students with stronger interpersonal skills) -- the core is a bit of a quiet advantage to a UChicago education.</p>
<p>JT</p>
<p>This seems like a loaded statistic due to selection bias. "Of those that apply to medical school," is not terribly useful. I would want to see, "of those that completed pre-medical requirements with an intention of applying to medical school," or something of this nature, as this would include all the students who were dissuaded from engaging in the long application process in light of their performance. It is striking that the 3.5 GPA of those that get in is already very high by Chicago standards, something like top 1/3 of the class.</p>
<p>Right, but that's the average GPA of those who are accepted. It implies that those who are accepted are in the top half of their class, something that is probably true for almost any college. And at every college there are lots of people -- probably the majority of "pre-meds" -- who are dissuaded from engaging in the long application process in light of their performance. (I just had dinner the other night with a classmate who is a partner in a Wall Street law firm, with all that implies, and she was reminiscing about how Organic Chemistry ended her dream of being a doctor.)</p>
<p>notsomuch,</p>
<p>neither your nor idad's quotes tell us much about the admissions chances of UofC pre-meds. There are too many other variables to deal with. </p>
<p>In other words, these quotes are factoids, designed to provide spin on a story that may not othewise be so great. Why do I say that? No context, no comparison of like to like.</p>
<p>Looking at averages of different kinds of things is a terrible way to compare things. Take housing. If I told you that a place in suburban NJ had a lower average price for housing than a place in suburban Dallas TX, you might conclude that housing is cheaper in NJ, at least in that town. If I then told you the average home size in that NJ town was 1200 sq. ft. compared to 5,000 sq feet in Texas, would you still think the same thing?</p>
<p>Let's look at % who get in of the class. Means much less than the % successful of those who WANT to go, or who actually apply. To put another way, what we really want to know is two things: Of those that apply, how many are accepted? Of those that start out pre-med, how many make it to med school?</p>
<p>If you really want to be rigorous, you would do a multivariate analysis comparing GPA, test score total and "quality" of med school matriculated among various undergrad institutions. But I doubt that any school would release the data to allow such a comparison to be made.</p>
<p>So, if the anecdotes, PR pieces and such make you feel better, fine. :)</p>
<p>Actually -- to add to newmassdad's impossible research protocol -- you would also want to know what happened to the people who applied and weren't accepted, or who abandoned their plans to apply. Because, after all, probably what you want is to have a happy, productive life, not simply "to be a doctor". For example, people I know who abandoned the pre-med track include the aforementioned seven-figure corporate lawyer, a respected right-wing pundit, a successful TV producer, and a PhD biophysicist/med school faculty member. None of them spends a lot of time wishing he or she had gone to med school.</p>
<p>JHS,</p>
<p>Oh dear. I need to revise my research design. :)</p>
<p>It is sad that such comparisons don't exist, but it is because too much is at stake. IMHO, no university wants application and enrollment decisions to be driven by data regarding outputs - i.e. the results of their educational efforts. This is shown by institutional reluctance to allow publication of all kinds of things that are surveyed and studied. For example, a few years back, the WSJ had an article about alcohol use on college campuses. Turns out a researcher at Harvard's school of public health had been collecting such data for a few years, but his agreement with colleges (required for access to students) prevented him from publicly disclosing individual campus data. He told me when we spoke that no one would allow him to collect the data without this restriction. Makes me suspicious.</p>
<p>This was my point at the top of the thread, I'm directly involved in med school admissions and the precise statistics the OP wants are not generally made available.</p>
<p>JT</p>