Unemployed and Financial Aid problems

Paying for College
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<p>Thumper- yes! That’s exactly what I wanted to know regarding the Pell. Thank you.</p>

<p>Granted that a school has to justify a Pell award, but what justification is there for not awarding the maximum Pell if a student shows extreme financial need? I read stories online about independents who receive a few hundred, to maybe $4K in Pell awards. Is it that some of these stories are old- when the Pell didn’t award as much? Other factors these folks aren’t relating?</p>

<p>Also, what do you think (I’m presuming you’re involved in FA?) an administrator would do based upon my need requirements? 21K income, displaced worker for an extended period, no assets, enrolled full-time (14 hours, actually).</p>

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<p>Isn’t TX a state has no income tax? Much as I dislike taxes, they actually do help to fund programs that help people! Re food co-op programs - ask someone at your local church, these are often run more informally and are not the typical “subscription” type deal…there are no personal questions asked at all. Our local churches offer a 1-2x/month thing, they publish what will be in the boxes (x pounds of whatever meats, y pounds of various produce, pb&j, bread, cheese, macaroni, canned goods, baking items, etc.) and the price is usually around $20…literally anybody can sign up for it as long as they agree to pickup at a certain date/time and, from reading the contents, it would appear to be enough for a person to live on for a week or two if they had to. I know these co-ops are not limited to my area. Also, many churches have informal food pantries in their basements/rectories - they will fill bags/boxes for whomever comes to them with need, no questions asked. We often include a modest amount of cash so they can purchase other items that we don’t often have (ie toothpaste). Even if you have no religious affliliation, churches will often go out of their way to help someone who is trying to help themselves and they may be able to recommend an affordable housing option if you do get evicted. I occassionally rent a small apartment in my home to low-income students or others in need for just enough money to help pay the increased utilities but this is never something I seek people out or advertise for…it’s always through referrals.</p>

<p>In addition to the federal education site, I think that finaid.org has one of the most comprehensive and easy to search/read sites for education funding topics on the web. Nursing is perhaps the easiest of all the health professions to find funding for - HRSA offers a nursing scholarship program (though you missed the application cycle for 2010) and there are also loan forgiveness programs. Our state offers additional funding to nursing students, though that may be gone now, so it’s possible that if TX has a nursing shortage there may be funds available for that.</p>

<p>Finally, have you tried the home health agencies and nursing home (CNA) programs? I know several college kids who do this - the turnover is so high for these jobs that they have no problem at all getting jobs for the summers, even over Christmas break. It’s not easy work, and the pay is not enough imo, but it would certainly give you someplace to start since your UI is ending soon.</p>

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<p>Sk8rmom- I agree, nursing will be considerably easier to secure funding for, but only once I’m in my 5th semester on/once I start clinicals. I can’t even apply to Nursing school until I’ve met the 60 hours of pre-reqs.</p>

<p>I’ll give the church/co-op thing a look. I live in a rented home in a way overpriced neighborhood (which is where most of my ‘income’ goes now- too expensive to move, too expensive to stay. I’m selling my car to help pay for the downpayment on an apartment for a move scheduled in 2 months), and I don’t think they’re into such things. Still, this is a big city- something must be out there. It just gets so hard doing the same thing day after day, time after time, and still coming out with nothing. </p>

<p>Who said that it’s insanity to keep doing the same thing day after day and expect a different result? He’s right.</p>

<p>The growing trend in nursing, as in other fields, is to push down those with less education/training and replace them with more. No different here, and this is the largest medical center in the country. I think once I’m in school, oddly, I should qualify for Federal Work Study, but am leery as I am taking so many hours this first semester, and it’s been 18 years since I’ve been in school. I’m nervous.</p>

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<p>All I can tell you is that Kelsmom is probably the most qualified to give you advice and the realities that you face in your situation as she sees such cases thousands of times over. The rest of us are sympathetic and can give you suggestions but we are not privy to what happens in a financial aid office and what kind of hard luck stories are told and which ones are considered “special” enough to get exception. Kelsmom works in a depressed area where there are few jobs, so she is very well versed in your situation. </p>

<p>As a parent who has valued education to the point of making it one of the family priorities, I have sympathies for all students whose parents were not helpful in this process. As a parent and adult, I can also tell students that providing, saving, having enough money to pay for the best education is not easy and other life priorities and difficulties often take precedence. Most of us on CC are used to reading posts from kids who are going to schools that cost a lot of money and have the funds to allocate, and these kids usually have family involved. As an independent student, you are an anomaly here, BUT you are in with vast majority of college students in the US. Most college students are in their mid 20’s or older, are independent students and are trying to balance work, school and financial aid. </p>

<p>College is not the answer to unemployment and housing problems. If you are applying to college, you cannot expect the government or the college to be paying your costs. This happens only to the tiniest niche of students, usually right out of high school who have the top credentials. Going back to school is a tremendous sacrifice financially. I know a number of my oldest’s friends who thought going back to school was a way to “make a living” so to speak, and they learned very quickly, that the free rides are not out there.</p>

<p>Pell gives you just about enough to pay tuition to a state school and if you are living with someone who is subsidizing your living expenses, just maybe, you’ll get enough to get buy with some loans. The money is not intended to help someone relocate for college and is not sufficient to do that.</p>

<p>I know folks that got the maximum PELL and were able to use it to go to school. Know one young man who is doing it now. To get that, he was unemployed basically all last year, and did NOT get unemployment benefits because the job he had was not eligible for those benefits. So his EFC was easily zero. He is living at home, has the full PELL and lives off of what’s left after it pays his tuition. The COA does give him a living allowance so he can get up to that amount from the PELL and the subsidized Staffords. It’s as good as it gets, but he had to go through a year of no money to get this. The problem you are facing is that you are asking for funds with an income that most of these kids wish they had.</p>

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<p>NO…the school does not “justify the Pell award”. The amount of the Pell you receive is based on your EFC per FAFSA and NOTHING ELSE. If your EFC is $0, you get the maximum Pell. If your EFC is $4000 you get FAR less than the maximum and the school has NOTHING to do with this determination.</p>

<p>The “what to do about that $2400” is totally up to YOUR school. They will make this determination…not you or me. And it doesn’t matter a bit whether others have gotten different outcomes. </p>

<p>With regard to others receiving larger Pells than others…it’s totally because their EFC was a different number. If someone is telling you otherwise, they are giving you a line.
I am not a financial aid professional. I am simply a parent who has dealt with various aspects of financial aid both at the grad and undergrad levels for my family.</p>

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<p>Definitely do something different today and dial in to your community. By “I don’t think they’re into such things”, what do you mean…churches?! Believe me, in every area there are needy or less fortunate people and I’ve never known a church that didn’t try to help honest people! If you’re in an affluent area, the help available may actually be greater as the need may be less…we give away literally tons of good quality, gently used clothing every year but the Catholic church in the fairly exclusive area nearby often gives away brand new clothing…their members buy much more than the average person and often donate what they don’t care to take back to the store! Not surprisingly, the thrift store (or whatever they call it - it’s not a Salvation Army, but just a local one) in that town is one of the best I’ve ever seen - when I was a starving student I bought many clothing and household items there and I’m pretty picky about that stuff. But, as in all towns, there are lower income people who live in there as well and the churches there particpate in the same food co-op program that we do. </p>

<p>That quote may feel true for now, but there’s also something to be said for perserverance! You never know the day your luck will change, but it will surely take a lot longer if you hang your head and give up so just keep trying! You may get a very positive result from your FA appeal and life could change quickly!</p>

<p>Btw, the amount of the Pell grant has changed quite a lot since inception and particularly in the past few years.</p>

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<p>Education is the answer, oddly, for employment, nevermind having a meaningful career.</p>

<p>So I never stated that I felt college is the answer for unemployment- I happen to be unemployed and am going through the long process of being admitted. I did state it would make sense from the Federal point of view- 1) you pay less in grants than in UI benefits, 2) you provide (and this is important) a real opportunity to someone to make a better life for themselves, and thus 3) back to point 1- by taking someone off the teet and teaching them how to earn and contribute more to society (taxes), you do everyone a favor. </p>

<p>Should you teach the hungry man how to fish, or simply catch them a fish?</p>

<p>A full Pell would pay for just my tuition on 14 hours. Nor am I relocating, nor did I ever state my intent to do so. However, my zeroing my Unemployment income I also qualify for lower interest loans, more types of loans, and more grants. It’s a vast difference.</p>

<p>I’m not asking for funds with an income that the kids wished they had, or I’d hope that people would wish for more than 21K a year. I’m asking for my UI to be zeroed for more opportunities open up. In your example I <em>wish</em> to dear god I had a parent I could stay with. He has no money of his own outside of his school expenses? He’s extremely lucky. I wish I didn’t have rent, I wish I didn’t have bills, I wish I didn’t have to worry about feeding myself, I wish I had the luxury of being able to attend college and stay with someone who could assist in my care. Such grand luxury!</p>

<p>In fact, I’m not hoping for any more than what my school is claiming is the cost of attendance for a full year, and am in fact able to do with less- I’ve learned to live frugally.</p>

<p>It almost seems as if the impression you’ve gotten is that I’m looking to freeload off the government? That I only wish to suddenly go to college as a solution to my unemployment, but not in regards of bettering my career opportunities (or changing my career as the case is), but simply to milk the system for funds to live off of…and if I have to pass some courses to do so, sure whatever. I’m more than a little sensitive to such notions having encountered them, more and more frequently, in this past year. Sorry if that’s not the case. I work very hard and end up nowhere. I have a daily routine that I follow 6 days a week which starts at 5am. My selected path, the grad schools I’ve been researching, well, it’s not for just making a few passing grads and hoping for the best. I have to study, study hard, do well. I have to thrive, not eek by.</p>

<p>What I’m doing I’ve wanted to do for years, but it never seemed possible. Even last Fall when I received notice that I could qualify for a Pell it seemed so difficult. Finally in April I filled out my FAFSA. </p>

<p>As for me being in the ‘vast majority’ of students, according to the statistics I find I’m in the 1%, and in fact for my school I’m in an group of less than 50 students in my age range, which they consider 36-55.</p>

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<p>Sorry, let me rephrase that: Schools are being told by the Dept. of Ed. they’re allowed to use professional judgment on cases such as mine, and are being allowed more leeway in regards to documentation for such things as zeroing out UI income. I know in my case that zeroing out my UI income would reduce my EFC to near nothing, and according to the FAFSA forecaster and the school’s online calc, allow me to be awarded the maximum Pell as well as other loans and grants.</p>

<p>I am hoping for a Perkins, but it’s taken my school so long- nearly 2 months, to work out my FASFA with no answer that I’m giving up hope of seeing any of that. </p>

<p>Sk8rmom- I mean, my neighborhood is such that they’re…sniffy sorts. Urban Texans like to believe they’re above certain things. Community means less to those in my 'hood, than it would in other areas, which is where I’m going to have to look for such things.</p>

<p>As for clothing and what not- we have a thrift store around the corner with 50% off on Tuesdays. Oddly, I’m not in need of clothing, in fact, I just (shrewdly) utilized some <em>4 year old</em> $50 vouchers at the Men’s Warehouse totalling some 200 bucks. I was pleased- walked in with no money, they had to get corporate approval to reinstate these years old vouchers, and then walked out with $193 in new clothes. </p>

<p>And I live off $50/month for food, which isn’t too bad. I could do better.</p>

<p>My biggest woe is medical assistance. I have a number of medical problems which need to be addressed, but I cannot see even a county clinic but once a year without a financial review. My review stated that due to my income in 2009 I would have to pay full fee for all services. </p>

<p>Baylor, who has a great outreach program, also disqualified me from their community clinic for similar reasons.</p>

<p>Funny enough in my city the ‘caretakers’ of benefits is (drum roll): The United Way. A For-Profit organization. Bleh.</p>

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<p>Perkins is a limited funded loan. Each school gets a limited number of dollars to award. Typically these awards are long gone by now. It is possible that someone else might not return to the school and Perkins money might become available (that happened to my daughter) BUT it’s not a guaranteed situation.</p>

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<p>Interesting re: the Perkins.</p>

<p>Well our school tells us that they wouldn’t even process our FAFSA until we were enrolled. We couldn’t become enrolled until after a 2 day orientation (holds removed from our accounts).</p>

<p>Tomorrow will mark 2 weeks since the Freshman class of 2010 was able to have their FAFSA’s processed. </p>

<p>Seems a little scary close, but more- it would suggest by what you’re saying, Thumper, that Perkins are not for first-time/Freshmen students, at least not at my school, unless they’re extremely lucky.</p>

<p>Hmmm OH WELL. 20 minutes and I leave for my meeting.</p>

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<p>Your financial aid isn’t processed until you enroll? What school is this? I want to know so I can suggest that if financial aid is a significant consideration this is NOT a good choice school.</p>

<p>Many students with financial need MUST have their finances in order when they make the choice about WHETHER to accept an admission offer. </p>

<p>I know there are programs with admissions later and with other deadlines than the May 1 one for matriculation decision…but really AFTER orientation to get aid? I don’t understand this.</p>

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<p>Yikes! That’s one strange FA policy…who enrolls without knowing if they’ll be able to pay?! Good luck with your meeting and let us know how it turns out!</p>

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<p>It says May 1st is the priority deadline at my school.</p>

<p>The funny thing is I didn’t realize any of this when I started with the FAFSA. I actually started it in March, saved it, then called admissions. I applied to 3 schools, finally narrowing it down to my current choice. </p>

<p>Admissions folks on the phone were just…brutal. In fact the school has a notoriously bad rap online about just the admissions department. </p>

<p>I asked “Should I submit my FAFSA prior to being accepted?” “No…what?” </p>

<p>Then I’d get bounced to Financial Aid “What are the FAFSA deadlines? Do I need to submit it now? I’ve just submitted my application. " No, we don’t have any deadlines, per se, you can submit the FAFSA at any time”.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that this is my first time with this, and while I was at one point successful in my life, going through these hoops is intimidating and confusing.</p>

<p>The website has conflicting information as for actual deadlines, and until 2 weeks ago still had 2009 data present.</p>

<p>Yes, yes, these should have been warning signs. Next Fall I may transfer to a better school.</p>

<p>Heck, I didn’t even know I had to register for Orientation. Who knew? I had filled out a freshmen/new student application, one would think that would flag/generate an orientation registration. Fortunately someone in Financial Aid told me that. Admissions people were still raging on the phone. They really are nuts.</p>

<p>I agree- I’m to the point now that I’m not sure if I’ll be able to attend college at all this fall, and being that it’s taking the financial aid office so long to process the FAFSAs (if you can believe it at Orientation a great number of students hadn’t even filled one out yet), I may miss my payment deadlines. If the money is too low, I may need to appeal, and that’ll take even longer. </p>

<p>So much confusion which is why I’m going to meet my FA administrator.</p>

<p>They were still processing Summer FA in June. </p>

<p>The short of it is that I ended up submitting my saved FAFSA the first day of June, which was received by 6/3/10. 3 weeks later they requested a verification, which I gave them. 3 Weeks later- today, I’m going to see them. It’s so incredibly slow with no communication. Painful.</p>

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<p>Am I correct in assuming that you are a “nontraditional” student in the sense that you are older than 24 years old as an entering freshman?</p>

<p>I really would love to know this school…I just find it hard to believe they don’t have a financial aid section on their website with deadlines for completion of the forms. And…things like orientation information for accepted students.</p>

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<p>Thumper- I am non-traditional, being that I’m pushing 40. As for the school…eh, well it turns out I was given wrong information by Admissions. Also- the terms enrolled and accepted are used to mean various things, sometimes incorrectly by people at the school. </p>

<p>I don’t want to give the name of the school, but it’s a university, 4 year, and open enrollment.</p>

<p>BUT I met with my FAA and here are the results: <em>Normally</em> when someone is asked for verification (which is at random) they try to spot and flag students who are unemployed, especially since part of verification is getting our tax returns. However, in my case, it fell through the cracks- they were about to use the full $21,100 against my ability to qualify for a loan.</p>

<p>As soon as she heard I was unemployed, and had been, she immediately started talking about “Obama has made several changes to financial aid this year…” in short: The school policy is to zero <em>all</em> unemployment income. All of it. </p>

<p>I had to fill out a form verifying my unemployment, and since I brought my W-2s and 1099’s and other forms she made copies. She said that I should have word of my final package next week, but there are only 3 forms of aid left for me:</p>

<p>1) Pell Grant. I will receive the maximum amount which she states is $5,500
2) Subsidized loans
3) Unsubsidized loans. The total of 2 and 3 being the maximum for a freshman student in 2010: $9,500. </p>

<p>$15,000, about 4,000 short of need met, and that’s living fairly tight. </p>

<p>She said those were guaranteed. And at this point that’s all the funds available. She said I’d need to get a private loan to make up any difference.</p>

<p>Still, not bad. I also learned that on Jan 1, 2011 I’m going to submit my FAFSA for Fall 2011 at 12:01am, haha</p>

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<p>Glad it turned out well for you.</p>

<p>To others, however, just because THIS student had this outcome does not guarantee that everyone else will have the same outcome.</p>

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<p>No doubt, with the early responses from Kelsmom stating that as a FAA she wouldn’t zero unemployment income I was expecting the worst. I just happened to be ‘lucky’ in the regards that my school has adopted a very…understanding policy regarding such things.</p>

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<p>Kelsmom was giving you accurate information…the policy ALLOWS but does not REQUIRE schools to do what your school did. As much as you didn’t like her response to you…you’ve got to admit, being prepared for the worse…and BEING PREPARED when you went into finaid was partially due to the excellent posts she wrote to you. The rest of us just reinforced them with different wording…same message…different wording.</p>

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<p>What about state aid? Doesn’t TX have a student aid program or don’t you meet the requirements? The problem with the package she estimated for you, aside from the $13500 in loans for one year, is that a private lender is going to require you to have a good credit rating, etc…which may or may not be a problem given your long period of unemployment. Do you have a community college nearby where you could take some of your prerequisites? They usually have articulation agreements set up with other universities so you might find that, if you’re planning to transfer anyway, it’s simpler (and a lot less expensive) just to start at a CC. You absolutely don’t want to dig yourself a hole with student loan debt!</p>

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<p>Apparently due to the lateness of my FAFSA there isn’t any other aid they offer. There is state aid, there’s even a Texas version of the FAFSA, but it’s either or. Also- just by filling out and submitting the FAFSA there are like 9 different grants made available. I was just too late this year.</p>

<p>Lesson learned. I don’t mind taking a hit on the first year, to be honest. The community college nearest me suffers from poor ratings, far worse than where I’m going. Having read the horror stories of persons taking a full course load I opted not to even bother, though I did apply. If I were taking just 1 or 2 courses I would consider it. A friend of mine who is switching careers to be a physicians assistant is taking courses from UT online, but only 2 a semester. The best community college system in the whole state is in the suburbs of my city, but I’m not able to commute, and would save ~$50/credit hour. After my 2nd year I’ll be eligible for nursing grants, special loans, and that work program the government has for doctors and nurses- give up 2 years of your time (or more) and they pay back a good portion of your fees. </p>

<p>Also I have a list of 5 scholarships with due dates ranging from the first of August to the middle of Sept I’m applying for. Lots of essays to crank out. I was given the phone number/name of the person for my school who handles scholarship aid. </p>

<p>All said- at this point in my life I’m more worried about <em>not</em> going to school and succeeding than I am of 1-2 years of student aid debt. </p>

<p>Next year should be nearly full need met without a private loan. </p>

<p>$9500 in loans from the school, $5500 in a Pell grant, roughly $5K in private loan.</p>