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<p>Your doctor friend assumed that the entire purpose of a Dartmouth education was to get his or her student a desirable entry-level job in his or her first six months out of school? The problem isn’t with Dartmouth or with the student - it’s with the parent who apparently has plenty of dollars but too little sense.</p>
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<p>Very well put.</p>
<p>Unemployment is a function of our bad economy.</p>
<p>^^^
I agree entirely with the last post.</p>
<p>And a little perspective here. I graduated college in the midwest in 1978. That was a terrible time and place employment wise. Other than the engineering and nursing majors, my class was mostly out of luck job wise. I was among the majority who floundered around and was unemployed and then underemployed for quite some time. Eventually the economy improved (as it will again).</p>
<p>Oh, crossposted with the last post. It was gadad’s post I was referring to.</p>
<p>I have no moralizing in me- plus I think we’ve all beaten that horse to death over the last few years. But if anyone is interested in some practical advice on getting an entry level job, let me enumerate what I have observed:</p>
<p>1- you need to be flexible geographically. Most new grads think this means that they’d be happy to live in downtown SF OR Berkeley. That is not geographic flexibility. Flexibility means that unless your oncologist insists that you be within a 20 mile drive of the hospital where you get chemo, you need to be open to moving where the jobs are. You’d be surprised how many unemployed new grads living in nice neighborhoods in DC, NY or SF just won’t consider Dayton Ohio or Springfield MA or Minneapolis. Ask them and they’ll tell you all the reasons why they’d rather be living off Mom and Dad and meeting friends for drinks in Georgetown than paying their own way somewhere less fun.</p>
<p>2- You need to have someone translate your resume into real world English. If your honors thesis was in some obscure aspect of Semiotics, it would be really helpful if you used plain and descriptive language which summarizes your topic using words generally used in conversation.</p>
<p>3- You need to cast a wide net and apply to absolutely everything that you are remotely qualified for and partially interested in. That means if you want to launch a career in the entertainment industry, you need to apply for positions in fundraising at Public TV stations, entry level marketing jobs at sports stadiums, and jobs as a media analyst at ad agencies. None of these may be exactly what you want; none of these have the cachet of discovering the next “Seinfeld” or telling NBC where to move Leno on the schedule- but you have a better chance at your dream entertainment job starting from one of the three places I mentioned than from Mom and Dad’s basement. I promise.</p>
<p>4- you need to start living like a new grad instead of like a 50 year old yuppie, even if you feel you deserve the lifestyle of a 50 year old. That means you don’t get the big screen tv, all the communications gadgets, the ski weekend at Aspen and the MLK weekend in Cancun just yet. And you’ll need a couple of roommates-- forgot about that. Once you do the “new math” on your new lifestyle, you will discover that the 28K salary that the public TV station in Minneapolis has offered you will allow you to be financially independent from Mom and Dad. Folks to share the rent- check. Cellphone bill- check. Beer and macaroni night at your apartment with your new friends from work- check. Yes- you really can afford to live like a new college grad with your new professional job in your chosen field. But not on the Upper West Side with a river view and martinis in a nice bar every night with your friends.</p>
<p>5-You need to prepare for each and every professional encounter- phone, face-to-face, even email. That means turning off your cellphone before a job interview; change your goofy email address to something professional; use one of the Times Roman or comparable fonts on your resume not a bizarre and girly cursive; Make sure that you don’t ask questions during your interview that any fourth grader with an internet connection could have answered for you. The director of HR doesn’t want to tell you what products the company makes, trust me.</p>
<p>So why Dartmouth grads are unemployed is a mystery best left to the philosophers of our time, but a decently motivated college grad who is prepared to dig in is going to find a job- even in this wretched economy, I promise you.</p>
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<p>Has anyone ever seen a chart that shows a list of college majors with the associated data:</p>
<p>For each major: #Grads, %employed in field, %employed not in field, %underemployed, %part time, %unemployed
after a 6 month or one year period post-graduation?</p>
<p>Also knowing %employed in field after 1 year, 2 years, etc.</p>
<p>I have to say these college graduates are EXTREMELY fortunate to have parents who will make payments on their rent and/or student loans as they continue to search for a job.</p>
<p>There is a lot of blame to go around everywhere. First off the schools market themselves that the better they are the higher salary you will command once you graduate. When you look at rankings there are tons that show average salaries. However, no one ever reads what these salaries are based on ie what major. Usually these salaries are skewed b/c the higher paying majors will usually raise the mean substantially. Second, parents seem to think that if their kid goes to an Ivy that he/she is basically set for life. Short term thinking right there and not always true. Third, students themselves who are influenced by their parents start thinking that they are entitled to an enjoyable life b/c that is what they’re used to. You grow up your whole life hearing that if you just make it to an Ivy and do fine you will be set for life with lots of money. Simply untrue. Nothing in this world is guaranteed and America has been in a period of economic prosperity the last few decades b/c of tons of borrowing that will eventually come due (just look at our deficit which is projected to keep growing). We all need to take a chill pill and start facing the fact that life isn’t easy and nothing comes free.</p>
<p>It’s a tough economy but getting better: every one of my son’s extended group of Colgate friends has a job at this point. Some have picked up jobs over the last month or two. (And in response to the post immediately above mine, getting a job, at least for those graduating from a school like Colgate, has nothing to do with your major).</p>
<p>jrpar,</p>
<p>i’m not familiar with colgate but for most jobs with good starting salaries, i’m under the impression that it has something to do with your major ie engineering jobs for engineering students, accounting jobs for accounting students etc. obviously there are exceptions to this rule but in general from what i’ve seen, if you graduate with a liberal arts degree with a mediocre stats you have a harder time getting a job then a concentrated major with the same mediocre stats.</p>
<p>Speaking of Colgate, they actively promote the idea that attending Colgate will result in a better paying job: [Colgate</a> earns top spot in salary study - Colgate University News](<a href=“http://blogs.colgate.edu/2009/07/colgate-alumni-top-salary-stud.html]Colgate”>http://blogs.colgate.edu/2009/07/colgate-alumni-top-salary-stud.html)</p>
<p>It appears it is the number one LAC for alumni earnings potential.</p>
<p>Here are the 2009 average starting and mid career salaries for the top schools:
<a href=“http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp[/url]”>http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/top-us-colleges-graduate-salary-statistics.asp</a></p>
<p>Blossom – as always, an outstanding post.</p>
<p>^^Completely agree.</p>
<p>Son went the state school route…with scholarships…and very little out of pocket expenses. We are saving $ for him from one of those scholarships so he will have money upon graduating instead of loans. His experience has been good, not perfect, but good. Who knows if he’ll find a job…
As parents, we’re happy with the option he chose as our retirement funds have taken a big hit along with most folks out there. No pensions here. Just what we save. It’s tough. I can’t see how we would have been able to afford 200K. </p>
<p>That said, there are plenty parents who went that route, and for those that did, I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to look back and regret. Not enough time has passed. </p>
<p>For those parents and students making decisions going forward, this is an important lesson. Do what you can afford. And don’t expect automatic payoffs. IMO, there has been too much “brand frenzy” over the last 10 years. I have a good friend who insists that her role as a parent includes paying for the best school her children can get into, regardless of costs. She has said she would go homeless rather than compromise on this. What makes a best school…a ranking? And will it really be good for her kids to have a homeless parent?
My only hope is that this recent economic downturn will bring more sanity to this process.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why people assume there is an automatic correlation between what school you attended, your ability to get a job and your salary/career success. There really isn’t any, unless you go into a few select career fields: engineering, computer science, finance/accounting and a few others AND you want to work on Wall Street or for a top fortune 500 company or something to that effect. And that is generally only true for your first job out of college. Once you’ve landed your first job, things like drive, experience and competency generally play a much more important role in your career success.</p>
<p>Look around at the real-life examples you know. I can point to dozens. Heck, my son’s teacher did his undergrad at Emory and his grad work at Harvard. He’s a high school biology teacher. I make probably three times what he does, even though I took 10 years off as a stay-at-home mom and both of my degrees are from the State Us. I have an accounting degree and a MBA. Much higher salary range than a school teacher and in greater demand. That’s what it boils down to - supply and demand. That’s not to say that being a biology teacher is not successful but if you’re looking for a certain level of financial achievement, it is much better to choose by career type than by school.</p>
<p>I recently turned down an applicant from an Ivy who had interned on Wall Street while in school. Since graduating 6 years ago, she has been a nanny, a realtor, a herbal-life distributor and is currently a secretary at our company. She might have been given the job we had open except for three things: 1) She was extremely arrogant (she let you know at every turn she had graduated from an Ivy) 2)She came across as smart but not very competent and 3) her job history was so sketchy. We could have lived with the arrogance, but it was apparent her skill set was lacking.</p>
<p>My youngest brother graduated from the an extension campus of the State U with a computer science degree 2 years ago. Landed a great paying job ($55,000) with one of the top banks in the country…before he even graduated. This company recruits locally. In fact, most companies (including the big 4 accounting firms) recruit locally. </p>
<p>I’m all for getting the best education possible, whether it be at a Top 20 or a state U but to think that a top ranked school is going to confer some sort of guaranteed career success or even a job is naive at best.</p>
<p>Good post momlive.</p>
<p>I don’t think the major makes any difference for a LAC grad’s chances of landing a job. I say that having just watched my son’s friends go through the job search - they landed jobs with a wide range of majors that have nothing to do with the job they got. My employer regularly hires a large number of students from my alma mater (Williams) - again, major plays no part who is hired (GPA does matter in this case).</p>
<p>Blossom’s advice is terrific. I think that my son’s friends got jobs because they took similar practical approaches to the job search (and not, by the way, because they went to Colgate). A number of his high schools friends who attended LACs (Tufts, Colby, Skidmore and Hamilton come to mind) also have jobs. By mentioning that they all have jobs, I was trying to make the same point that blossom makes far more eloquently - the jobs are out there. </p>
<p>Of course Colgate promotes that survey - why not? I think it is silly survey if you look at the details - it only includes alumni who never go on to grad school but hey, if you are #1 in anything that’s usually worth trumpeting. The Colgate placement office, other than helping with creating a resume, did not play a role in these kids getting a job (although a couple did get in the door with an assist from a Colgate alum).</p>
<p>Sort of off topic but this thread brought a memory to mind. Back in my “hippie” days - mid 70s, I had a buddy who tried a couple jobs after graduation then joined a commune. There were two young women there who were Harvard graduates. At the time I thought it was o-so-counter culture, but now I can just imagine their near suicidal parents.</p>
<p>My D is a 09 graduate. She turned down a sizeable scholarship to go to a top 25 school. One that she had wanted to go to for many years. </p>
<p>She was a liberal arts major/economics. Her goal was to get a job in New York.
The internship that she had before her senior year let her know that they were not in a position to hire any interns before her internship started. She did the internship for experience and possible references.</p>
<p>She also went to her school’s career center and did not have success with it. She was told that the GPA cutoff for jobs that she wanted had gone up from the previous year due to the smaller number of jobs. She did send out resumes, and the response was to contact them when she had relocated to the area. She worked for a professor second semester and he helped her with job leads.</p>
<p>She moved to NYC this summer and found a job in six weeks. I have told her story before, but she utilized family, friends and alum contacts. Applied to every job on Craigslist that she was remotely interested in, went to a number of agencies and applied to online job search websites. As well as going to the main websites of companies that she was interested in working for.</p>
<p>She was successful in getting at least three interviews a week for the time that she was looking. My d was also told by a few of the places that she interviewed that they had received over 500 resumes in one day for the job that she applied.</p>
<p>She went to a number of places for third and fourth interviews and was told at the end of the process that she was a great candidate, however there were a number of people who had experience who would take an entry level job.</p>
<p>The position that she accepted was at the low end of what she knew that she could accept and live without parental support. She has a roommate and pays for her own TINY apt–on a great street in NY. She went for location and would deal with a walk up–in order to have her apt in an area that is convenient to work and friends. </p>
<p>Here is what she found worked for her and her other friends that also got jobs about the same time that she did.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The job seeker needs to be in the location where they want a job. There are a slew of qualified people looking for jobs and companies do not have to wait for a prospect to travel to the area for an interview. </p></li>
<li><p>She would look at job listings throughout the day. She wanted to be one of the first people to send in her resume.</p></li>
<li><p>The cover letter must grab them in the first five seconds. She was told a couple of times that her cover letter grabbed them in the first few lines and made them want to read her resume. (One interviewer told her that her gave each person maybe 6-10 seconds to scan and if nothing stood out, he went on.)</p></li>
<li><p>She found that it was important to utilize employment agencies. The can be a little harsh and they sent her to a few interviews that were strange…but a lot of entry level jobs are given out to numerous agencies. The agencies get paid when they place a person. (Contingency placement as opposed to retained search.) After she was placed she referred two of her friends with similar stats to her own to an agency and they were placed within three weeks.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As I stated in a previous post…she worked at getting a job. She called me many days tired, dirty and sweaty. She lived in a sublet that I’m glad I visited towards the end of her stay there. Most of her friends have found jobs. The ones that have not found jobs are the ones that are only using connections to find jobs. They are waiting for the “perfect” job instead of taking what is available.</p>
<p>Good luck and let’s hope the job market changes by the time my second d graduates.</p>
<p>Great post meredesfilles (and congrats to your D!).</p>
<p>I think recent grads looking for jobs should read your post and blossom’s post above - both are full of great spot-on advice.</p>
<p>jrpar,</p>
<p>Can you give me some examples of what your son’s friends majored in/what stats they had/what kind of jobs they landed? the reason i bring up liberal arts majors having difficulty getting jobs is because i know quite a few that haven’t been able to find jobs or have found jobs such as waitressing/retail or the such which in better times people with degrees usually wouldn’t want to do. also, when i read stories from publications about how hard it is to find a job for gen y, it’s usually a liberal arts major who is having the problem. i rarely see them interview an engineer without a job.</p>
<p>also, i think there was a businessweek article a few weeks ago about how the unemployment rate for 20 something year olds was like nearing 25%…so even though people you know may have jobs…there are many more then usual who don’t have jobs b/c of the recession.</p>