<p>Sony Vaio > Macbook</p>
<p>I find Macbooks to be highly overrated for anyone not in a design/architecture major.</p>
<p>Besides, he’d probably break that too.</p>
<p>Macbooks are not cost efficient, especially in your alls situation.</p>
<p>I feel for you, OP. It may be a combo of fouling the nest and a genuine cluelessness about how life generally is. I have an issue with kids who have an entitlement attitude. It may be a drawback of growing up in an upscale suburban community. My kids know how fortunate they are and at least do have some friends whose families are struggling. At college the kids are generally exposed to more economic diversity. Perhaps your son may appreciate what you have done for him later on. I hope that happens. In today’s economy nobody can take a comfortable life for granted.</p>
<p>We too are full pay at pricey schools, but have had each kid take out the unsubsidized Staffords. They are a reasonable deal and not overly burdensome. No cosign needed and the amount just gets deducted from the semester bill. We felt that our kids needed to have some “skin in the game” so they would want to make the most of their money. We also did contracts with them re expected GPA, etc. I told them we like our investments to have good returns. If they don’t make the most of college H & I can use the money for cruises instead! Kids were also expected to use their summer earnings for their personal expenses. We do pay for the books. </p>
<p>Be calm, confident and reasonable. Put communications in writing if it helps. That way you have a record as well.</p>
<p>Please do keep us posted.</p>
<p>The Macbook Pro is an amazing computer. It’s the first computer my MIT-EECS son has been happy with. I have to say that I’m on your son’s side on that one 
that is, assuming he’s a future EECS major. If not, it’s overkill.</p>
<p>I like the idea of the ubsubsidized Stafford loan. Gives him a reason to get a job after graduation, too.</p>
<p>+2 to “All kids don’t have Macs.” Time to teach him to fund his own style choices. DDs managed college, one with a $700 Dell, one w/ a $700 Toshiba. </p>
<p>If he is so intent maintaining an image of cool with a Mac, let him carry the full burden of a loan. He can learn the difference between a need and a want.</p>
<p>Ain’t adolescence fun? My heart goes out to you.</p>
<p>My best advice (based on my experience) is to let him rant about what he’s going to rant about and for you to put all your energy into being calm while with him. My guess is that we have ALL been through this kind of event. I sure have.</p>
<p>You are doing the right things, so you do not have to change anything about the agreements. You do NOT owe him any more than what you’ve agreed to provide, he is desperately trying to push your buttons and the danger here is that you go through the roof on the kid . . . and those kinds of explosions - from my personal experience - tend to have repercussions down the road. </p>
<p>What I do to keep myself in check is to jot down my talking points and questions for him beforehand, both for the things you’ve already expressed and your responses to the things he hasnt said yet (see below). Then try to stay with those talking points, for example:
D: I’m not comfortable co-signing a loan for you.
S: But I can’ get the computer I need unless you help me out!!! What is your problem?
D: Well, I’m just not comfortable co-signing
S: But why why why why why?
D: I’m just not comfortable doing that.
S: NO NO NO NO NO; you’re my parent; you’re supposed to help me out here instead of screwing up my life!!!
D: I’m sorry, but I’m just not comfortable.
S: Then I have to buy some piece of crap PC that will crash on me just when my paper’s due.
D: I was wondering: were you going to look at a different computer?
S: WHY WOULD I WANT TO DO THAT?
D: Well . . . I was just wondering if you were looking at a different one, is all.</p>
<p>What he hasn’t said yet might be these sorts of things, so get those talking points ready:
Screw it; I’m just not going to go!
If I flunk out it’ll be your fault.</p>
<p>In his favor the kid does sound like he’s got skin in the game and is helping to pull his weight here, which is a good responsible thing to do. But he’s still a kid, and it sounds like his maturity rheostat goes down to 3 years old pretty readily . . . which is normal adolescent human behavior, particularly when facing the terrifyingly imminent permanent change to his life as he knows it.</p>
<p>Kei </p>
<p>P.S. After he goes off to school you can throw an unexpected 10 or 20 his way every once in a while; he’ll never be that grateful for the huge tuition check you write, but boy oh boy will be truly grateful for random small bills once he’s in school :-)</p>
<p>I’m with thumper at post #3. </p>
<p>Told my S, I’m in for $X. Here’s what college “should” cost from all information we have. I reminded him that he had been told years before to get a job and save and that if he needed more than the $X I’d committed, HIS money was there and he could work if that didn’t cover it.</p>
<p>It has been great to see him deal with things as they arise instead of us having to re-hash money every time. </p>
<p>IMO–my S can only be “ungrateful” if I let him. I don’t, he is a rising junior who has had a job both summers, has never asked for more money and we still like each other. </p>
<p>OTOH–since he figures it out without asking for more money, I do not try to have a say in what he does and how he manages to get it done. Like we used to say when he was young, kids do bounce (if you let them).</p>
<p>STAY STRONG on this now.</p>
<p>Well, not saying it will work, but you could try a different approach.</p>
<p>You could tell him that as a parent, your job is to teach him to function without your help. You helped teach him to speak English. Read. You taught him about love and about helping people. All through high school, you gave him a safe place to learn and work. You saved to give him a college education. You helped teach him about sharing, being honest, etc. You taught him about getting a job. Now you have to teach him about managing his money.</p>
<p>You have worked decades and can afford a MacBook pro - not easily, but you can afford it. When he gets out of college it’s very likely that he will not be able to afford the things he’s used to. And he needs to learn how to handle that. He needs to learn how to give up something he wants, how to compromise. He will not always be able to ask people for help and now is a time to test his wings and see how far he can go without you. It is part of being self-sufficient. You know he can’t afford his tuition without taking a break from school, which isn’t necessarily what you want from him - but being able to afford a laptop and books is a reasonable challenge to help him push his boundaries and learn his limits.</p>
<p>Teaching him any less would be irresponsible from you as a parent. Other parents are doing their children a disservice by providing “everything” for them.</p>
<p>I think it’s pointless trying to get him to be grateful…a lot of kids think college is their entitlement…and in turn, a lot of parents (yourself included) feel it is their responsibility to give their child a college education. Just like some parents are not grateful if a kid does the dishes a few times a week - because that’s “expected” - many kids are not grateful if the parents pay for college. Because that’s “expected.” Society is the reason why kids are dependent on their parents. It’s not their choice. Likewise, society tells us what to expect from our parents - and our children. Unfortunately if he’s hanging out with such a wealthy peer class, or peers whose parents have different “expectations”, you can’t force him into a vacuum so he only sees your way. By perhaps transforming your message into something he can understand, by telling him something he knows is universally expected of a parent - to teach him lessons, even if they are hard - he will start to come around.</p>
<p>In this case I think the kid is being immature. But he’s a kid. You are a lot wiser than him and it’s only gonna be with time (and his own kids) that he’ll realize the work you put into him. But it’s not something you can force on him, it’s something he has to learn on his own. All you can do is stick by what you think is right, enforce it, and continue to love him despite his tendency to be kind of whiny ;).</p>
<p>we tend to give our choices about higher end options. If this were our son I would likely help out with a new laptop … but in this way … Dell has a model XYZ on sale for $499 on-line now so we are willing to pay $499 towards a new laptop … you can choose whatever laptop you want but we’re only contributing $499.</p>
<p>PS - we do the same with cell phones … cell phone service … etc. We offer to pay what we think is a reasonable minimum and the kids pick their option … which when it is their own money typically moves very close to our original pick … when it is their money they tend to get pretty frugal about “nice-to-haves”.</p>
<p>DS made do with his 2002 Thinkpad with a broken screen for more than a year. He scrounged for a CRT monitor for dorm use and his middleschool CRT when he came home. This was when he was a senior in ME and design engineering. Its amazing that a $2000 machine then, costs only $500 now and the newer laptops can do more, faster. I’m using the Thinkpad as a desktop on a used LCD screen. </p>
<p>DS also made do with a broken CD on his MacBook Pro for about a year. He would still be using that unit until his boss told him get a new MacBook for his work.</p>
<p>He can afford to have the newest and fastest on his dime but has other uses for his money.</p>
<p>It’s also good to point out that many adults go bankrupt because they do not know how to control their impulses. They want the best computer, the best car, the best foods, the best vacations…and then they don’t have enough money to send their kids to college, they don’t have enough money to pay their mortgage, to pay off debt, etc. </p>
<p>If your kid thinks he should take out a loan to pay for books because he thinks the only computer that will work is a MacBook, what does that say about decisions he’s gonna make on his own? Will he take out loans so that he can pay for luxuries in the future, possibly ruining himself financially?</p>
<p>He has to start learning these skills now. It’s not about LOGICALLY knowing about what you can afford/what you can’t, it’s about developing instinctive frugality, “good habits.”</p>
<p>I can’t thank you all enough for your support! Some of your responses made me laugh hysterically and other’s made me cry, but almost every one was spot on. What makes me the most frustrated is that I did not get to go to college and I would have killed for the opportunity he has now. We did fill out the FAFSA and we received three different loan options to total the amount of his tuition. I never really looked at them because in my mind they weren’t necessary. I may or may not share this information with him because if he took the time to do the research himself, he should be able to discover this. Time to stop hand holding this kid through life!</p>
<p>Decide what you can do, tell him what he is responsible, and that is that. No means no, and not every kid needs a Macbook Pro. Time for him to get a job for incidentals and books. If he gets a good laptop for $500 and works hard school year and summer he can budget for a Macbook Pro for next year. My guess, he will learn to use the $500 laptop and save his money next year when he realizes he can live without it. </p>
<p>Don’t cosign a loan. He can get a loan without a cosignee, or you can let him get an unsubsidized Stafford loan–it does not have to be for the amount that was offered as part of the financial aid package. He can get a loan for just $1000 or $2000 dollars. </p>
<p>He will learn a lot and mature as a result of your tough love.</p>
<p>When my son pulled the ‘Well I guess I’ll just NOT go to school then,’ stuff I said, “Oh, okay. Well, then you’ll need to call the school and tell them you’ll be withdrawing and ask what you need to do to get your deposits back.”</p>
<p>He filled out the forms he needed to for student loans pretty quietly after that.</p>
<p>Another talk I’ve had with my boys on occasion is the ‘fostering goodwill’ speech. In other words, alienating and being snippy with those who will be footing the bills, even if it’s mom and dad, doesn’t ‘foster’ goodwill and make them want to help you in the future.</p>
<p>Mehh…
just go grab your belt.</p>
<p>I 2nd the recommendation for the unsub Stafford loan. He does not need a credit check or a cosigner to get that. And it will be completely his responsibility.</p>
<p>
I would actually point him toward the Stafford loan for the sake of peace and quiet. *Then *stop holding his hand.</p>
<p>Don’t let him ‘wear you down’ about the cosigning. Not only are you responsible for the loan if he does not pay for any reason, but if he makes a late payment it affects your credit rating. My 20 year old recently did a consumer finance course (not by choice - she dropped a class and had to pick up a 1 hour short course to keep her full time for her scholarships). She was appalled at the risks associated with cosigning a loan and said she would never do it or ask anyone to do it for her. Actually she learned a ***lot ***from the class - a great deal of it stuff that I had told her but she hadn’t heard ( she would keep calling me and telling ask me ‘did you know?’ about stuff I have definitely talked to her about - funny how hearing it from someone other than a parent makes it true). I would recommend such a class to all students going off to college.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ask yourself, if you said, “son, you can do X, if you pay for it yourself”, don’t you think he’d figure out how to pay for it, if it was something he really wanted to do?</p>
<p>If your answer is yes, then drop the hand.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Tell your son to man up and use linux, instead of wussy user-friendly MACs… just like REAL CS majors. </p>
<p>:p</p>
<p>Actually, just tell him to build his own computer. That how we CS peeps earn our basic-computer-skillz card.</p>
<p>At the risk of going against the flow here…why NOT pay for the books? They are critical to his success, and a good investment in the future. I agree son should help pay his own expenses thru part time work, thrifty shopping etc. But if I were upper middle class, I’d spring for the books, and the computer. Even the macbook pro if son has been a good student with responsible behavior overall. In fact, that is exactly what our family is doing right now. Just my opinion…not trying to stir up an argument.</p>
<p>We gave our D a very nice HP computer for Christmas her senior year in High School. She is now a senior in college and that same computer is going strong. She isn’t one to care for labels and having the best of everything so which computer to get wasn’t an issue. I can understand a kid “wanting” a macbook pro but he may need a reality check and might have to settle for a lesser mac or another type of computer. Stand your ground!</p>