<p>Several weeks ago I was asked in a PM from a parent to post some of the advantages and disadvantages of working out of a maritime union so that cadets can make a more informed decision on which way to go after graduation. Ill start by saying I really dont know a heck of a lot about the American Maritime Officers (AMO represents both licensed mates and engineers) or the Marine Engineers Beneficial Association (licensed engineers) but I have been a member of the Masters, Mates and Pilots (licensed mates union) for over 30 years. Here are what I see as the disadvantages and advantages of joining the MM&P.
Disadvantages
starting as an applicant (no seniority, except among other applicants) and no guarantee of getting a job.<br>
Initiation fee (around $2,000 currently). $300 required to be paid up front.
If you do get a job it may be on a lesser paying contract ship. (i.e. Matsons CV2600 class containerships or a Central Gulf Line ship). Jobs on the better contract ships generally go to the full book members
You cant take classes at the unions training facility (MITAGS) until you can show 30 days of seatime on an MM&P contract ship.
It can take awhile to gain membership. The current second mate on my ship has been an applicant since he graduated from KP in 2001. The third mate who graduated from CMA in 2000 is still an applicant too. However both are close to getting their book membership.<br>
You have to pay dues (currently $400 per year). Also the union takes 5% of your vacation check. Both are tax deductions though.
Advantages
Once you gain full membership you can go back and look for work when you want to. With a company youll need to go back when THEY say you will go back. I have always liked the feeling that I had some independence, even after I got a permanent position I knew that if I got fed up with things I could quit and ship off the board.
The training facility at Linthicum Heights MD, is one of the finest in the world and its training simulators are state-of-the-art.
There is an employer-funded, trust-administered health and benefits plan with offices near Baltimore and additional offices around the country.
22 separate hiring halls and offices in port cities throughout the continental United States and Hawaii, on the Great Lakes, and in Puerto Rico.
You work under a contract that is clear about compensation, work rules and jurisdiction. The union will also represent you in contractual disputes with an employer.
There is a employer funded defined benefit pension plan and Individual Retirement Account Plan. It doesnt matter who you work for all employers signatory to the contract pay into common retirement plan. You will also earn pension credit even when you work as an applicant. Both the 2nd and 3rd mate that I mentioned earlier in the post have over 5 years of pension credit accumulated since joining the union.<br>
Off the top of my head those are what I see as the major advantages and disadvantages of working out of a union. Hopefully other posters that work in the maritime industry can add their $.02..</p>
<p>Thanks, DD1, I always enjoy your facts of life commentary for those of us not familiar with the maritime business. How does health insurance work? If you pick up jobs for a few months and then are off until you find a new ship - do you buy individual health insurance? Does the union have it? This is a big issue that can be very expensive and devestating if something happens.</p>
<p>Back to unions - it seems to me that some maritime unions have had some financial and leadership "</p>
<p>Whether my husband is at sea or home, we are insured. And thank goodness...AMO really pulled through when our daughter had some MAJOR medical expenses. We could have been bankrupt if it weren't for AMO's health coverage. I have forwarded Deepdraft1's thread to my husband onboard ship. I'll post his thoughts when and if I get some!!</p>
<p>Thanks DD1. Thanks two or three times. Your post called for a little printer action.</p>
<p>anyone know about engineer unions ??</p>
<p>//</p>
<p>weski, 30 days employment gives you 6 months of H&B coverage. At least thats what I think it is. I don't pay very close attention to it because I have a permanent job. When I get my vacation check paperwork it always tells me the last day benefits are good till, but I'm always back to work before they expire. If I was shipping "off the board" I would be looking at that a little more closely. I'll check it out and see if I can get you some more concrete numbers. and yes there have been some "leadership issues" recently with the AMO. You can read all about it here. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McKay_(labor_leader%5B/url%5D)">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McKay_(labor_leader)</a></p>
<p>This does not give me a warm feeling reading the (corrected) link to AMO's former president - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McKay_%28labor_leader%29%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_McKay_%28labor_leader%29</a></p>
<p>Anyone have info on MEBA and the other unions? Right-left coast make any difference?</p>
<p>Links to maritime union websites</p>
<p><a href="http://www.d1meba.org/index.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.d1meba.org/index.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.bridgedeck.org/apply.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.bridgedeck.org/apply.htm</a>
<a href="http://amo-union.org/%5B/url%5D">http://amo-union.org/</a>
<a href="http://amo-union.net/essentials.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://amo-union.net/essentials.shtml</a></p>
<p>weski, left coast = more jobs
DD1</p>
<p>I was incorrect on the MM&P Initiation fee. It's $3,500 (or $4,500, if your license is older than one year) with a minimum of 10% payable when you make application. Also the union takes 6.5% of your vacation check not 5% as I stated above.</p>
<p>The details for the MEBA are pretty much the same as what DD1 described for the MM&P... Union halls exist in most of the major U.S. ports - actually the two unions share some halls. As the name implies MEBA is largely made up of Engineers, although they do have some contracts with companies for both Engineering and Deck billets. As such, the Union currently has a growing number of Licensed Deck Officers. </p>
<p>I'd like to amplify a couple of the advantages DD1 mentioned:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Training - The training facilities operated by both the MM&P and MEBA offer a tremendous value to a seagoing Officer. Education does not stop in this industry at graduation. In order for an officer to advance his/her license to upper management level, the U.S. Coast Guard requires many weeks of highly specialized (read high $$$) training. The Training Plan provides this training at no cost to members and applicants who meet the eligibility requirements.</p></li>
<li><p>Pension - Although this is probably the least appreciated benefit by a young 20 something year old just entering the industry, it won't take long before they are a not quite so young 30 something year old and are well on their way to being able to retire. I'm not sure of the details of the MM&P pension fund, but the MEBA plan offers retirement plans beginning after 20 years of covered employment (regardless of age). The benefits peak at about 33 years of covered employment when you can retire with about 110% of your highest wage years. The MEBA plan is a fully funded multi-employer plan (no contributions needed from employers) with assets well over $1 billion.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Finally, I'd like to second DD1's comments regarding the opportunities offered through the hiring halls operated by the Unions. Whether you are a new kid looking for adventure or an old salt that has gotten tired of the same old grind, the relief jobs offered off the board in the Union Halls are a great benefit to young and old alike.</p>
<p>I have been a member of MEBA (Marine Engineers Beneficial Association) for 25 years. It is without any question the best union for engineers in the maritime industry today. Unless you plan to work for an oil company you are pretty much going to have to join a union to sail on US flag ships. The MEBA offers excellent benefits and a retirement second to none. It has a training center in Easton, MD that is beyond first class. It also has a medical plan that while not perfect offers more than anything else you could buy on the market for any price. </p>
<p>That being said it is not easy to get started. It requires a commitment and a little determination. The MEBA halls right now are wide open. There are jobs on the board. Yes some are lowing paying contracts (sweetheart Contracts) but they are a way to get your time rolling and your benefit clock running. After 60 days of sea time you are on the medical plan automatically and it is good for 6 months. Night jobs count towards you benefit days and are a good way to earn money while waiting in the hall for a job to come up. We have had a steady stream of Group IIIs (applicants) on my ship recently and it is a full contract ship, one of the highest paying in the union. Two of these Group IIIs graduated in 2007!!! from Maine maritime. You have to start as a group III, after so many sea days you are placed in group II, after 720 days in group II you are moved into group I as slots become available. Recently guys have been moving up to group I as soon as they get their 720 days. You will have to pay an initiation fee, sorry don't know the amount but it is probably close to $3500. You pay yearly dues of $400 and vacation dues of 6% of your vacation gross.</p>
<p>There is a way to bypass the group III/groupII route and that is to get a job with MSC, NOAA, or Army Corp of Engineers. You then join the union and they place you in the Government services program. You only pay the annual dues of $400, the initiation fee is waived. After 720 sea days with government civil service you automatically receive your group I card. You then have the option of quitting your job and registering at a union hall for a shipping card or staying on with your government employer. </p>
<p>The MEBA also has mates and captains on some company ships and also has a new bridge simulator at the school in Easton. After 60 days of sea time you can apply to attend the courses at the school. Slots are available to Group I members first. You are paid to attend school, room and meals are provided, and are pretty much staying at a resort on the Maryland eastern shore. There is a wide range of courses offered and all are top notch.</p>
<p>Kings Point has never been very good at explaining how the unions work and what it takes to get started. The unions themselves don't make a big effort to recruit either. They might visit once a year and place an advertisement in the Kings Pointer. The school tends to emphasize the management side of things. People not familiar with the industry can get bewildered by it all. </p>
<p>I can answer specific questions or at least guide you in the right direction. When I graduated in 1981 the country was in a severe recession and the union books were closed. Shipping companies were dropping like flies. The rumor was the industry was going tits up and you were wasting your time if you tried to go union. Well 25 years later I hear people still saying the same thing. Every industry has its ups and downs. Graduates of a maritime academy and those that keep up their training/education will always be in demand and will always be able to ship out.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is a way to bypass the group III/groupII route and that is to get a job with MSC, NOAA, or Army Corp of Engineers. You then join the union and they place you in the Government services program.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That issue had the Hubby & I going :confused: Thanks for that explanation. You guys are such a help.</p>
<p>I'll throw in my 2 cents about American Maritime Officers as I sailed with them before going to medical school.</p>
<p>AMO is definately seen as the lower tier of the maritime unions and probably rightfully so. Their management in the past has been suspect at best, but it was a job and it paid pretty well. The first main difference with AMO is that they are both a deck and engine union. MM&P is mainly deck and MEBA is mainly engineering; AMO has pretty much an equal number of each.</p>
<p>The other big difference is that in AMO there are no Union Halls. To get a job in AMO you simply have to call the dispatcher in New York and beg him for a job. This is where part of the problem is. A member never really knows what jobs are availabe and if the dispatcher may be playing favorites. WIth that being said it was never longer than a couple weeks after I called the dispatcher that I had a job. In fact I had one two weeks after graduation. This is a double edged sword. It's nice in the fact that you don't have to travel to a union hall to sit around and pay for a hotel, but it's bad in the fact that you have no idea what is available. </p>
<p>A third difference is that once your given a job in AMO you can pretty much keep that job until you don't want it any more. With most entry level contracts in MEBA/MMP you have a limited number of days you are allowed to stay on the ship and after that to get another job you have to go back to the union hall. WIth most of the jobs in AMO once you are on that ship you just work out a rotation with your relief and you can keep swapping until whenever. No need to call the dispatcher for another job, just call and let them know you're going back.</p>
<p>Those are the major differences. Unfortunately I don't remember the initiation fee or quarterly dues, I'm sure they have changed anyway. I do remember having medical benefits after my first job. </p>
<p>It has been a few years since I sailed with them and I'm sure some things have changed, but if you need a job quick and don't want to sit around a hall AMO is a decent option. They also have a training center down in Dania Beach Florida, but I never went there. If I was planning on sailing for a career I probably would have gone MMP, but I needed a job quick and AMO is good for that.</p>
<p>thank you for all the wonderful information!</p>
<p>This is the best source of info around! We keep hearing how graduates get these great paying jobs - but now I realize they are only for 2-3 months at a time unless you go MSC or such. Do recent grads really get jobs with Exxon or Horizon or Maersk? Any tips on special certifications to get while at school?</p>
<p>You can get a third mates or third engineers job with any oil company right out of school. They usually recruit at the maritime academies on a specific day or week when a lot of other companies are there holding interviews. You cannot hold a permanent job in the union (MMP and MEBA) until you are group I member. Group III and II have to ship "off the board" which means they have to go to the union hall register for a shipping card and "throw in" for the jobs. They can be anywhere from 30 to 120 days in length. A group I can be hired directly as First Engineer or a Chief Mate by any company. All third assistant and 2nd assistant jobs in the MEBA are rotary jobs of 90 days. There are no permanent thirds or seconds. This keeps the jobs rotating through the union halls. Some companies do require extra certification beyond your license to sail on their ships. Maersk and Horizon require the engineers to take certain courses. You can go to to the school or you can opt to take a test at the union hall. Pass the test and they give you the certification.</p>