Universities Will Not Deploy Kindle DX as Textbook Reader

Parent Cafe
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<p>It’s a bit different than that. A lot of vision impaired students (K-12 as well as college) use recorded books, generally from an organization such as [Recording</a> for the Blind & Dyslexic: Accessible Audiobooks for students with visual impairment, dyslexia or learning disabilities](<a href=“http://www.rfbd.org/]Recording”>http://www.rfbd.org/). </p>

<p>The books are recorded by volunteers who are familiar with the subject material. That allows them to do things like spell new terms or names, or give a meaningful description of illustrations, graphs, and the like. The recordings are in a special digital format. Combine that with the compatible reader (which makes the Kindle look cheap), and even blind users can navigate to specific pages or chapters.</p>

<p>There’s a library of already-recorded titles, and new volumes get added when a student gets assigned a text that’s not in the existing library. Sometimes there aren’t enough volunteers, and a text can’t be recorded in time. The Kindle would obviously be a tremendous thing to have as a quick 'n easy backup option. </p>

<p>I don’t know much about how blind people use computers, but I do know that there are things built into operating systems to make it possible. And since the Kindle can now automate reading any book out loud, the voice recognition capability already exists on the machine. So I can’t imagine that it would be an enormous engineering undertaking for Amazon to add in the ability for the Kindle to have voice recognition for its navigation menus. </p>

<p>There are a lot of other issues with using the Kindle for textbooks, anyway. Lighter, yes, but more expensive (can’t buy used, no resale market, can’t be used by more than one person at a time), poor quality reproduction of tables/illustrations/graphs in technical material, higher risk of theft, in which case you lose access to all your books. That case where a high school student lost his margin notes when Amazon yanked copies of George Orwell novels made my hair stand on end. All issues that can be worked out, and probably harder to work out than the vision-impaired navigation thing.</p>

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<p>First, I guess I failed to explain my point well, but you did help prove it. Why does Amazon have a greater obligation to help solve this problem that the publishers of the textbooks which aren’t accessible to the blind? And why should Amazon care if those just made available textbooks which can’t be accessed have to be bought in regular print format? It makes more money on precisely those books, not the ones that are available used and have been recorded. </p>

<p>I suspect there’s less risk of theft than with standard textbooks, which are frequently stolen. You can “lock” your kindle so that nobody without your password can access your kindle. More imporrtantly, each kindle is registered to an owner and if it’s stolen, you report it and nobody can download any additional books on it. </p>

<p>And, my understanding is that Amazon backs up all the books you download and you don’t have to pay again for them if you lose them. (It’s bigger motivation for doing this is to promise you that if you buy a newer model, you will still have access to all your books.)</p>

<p>And one of the major advantages of the kindle is that you do not need access to the internet to download books. That may be why it’s harder to come up with software to help the blind than it would be if kindle required internet access to use it.</p>

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<p>Zimmer07:
Surely you must be able to understand the context of the posts I’ve made here. I’m not unsympathetic to the blind and I’m not saying that the blind should be shut out but I am saying that introducing the Kindle (as an example ebook) makes sense because of those it would benefit and to ‘not’ introduce it because there’s a small segment of the population it might not benefit, but it won’t hurt them either, doesn’t make any sense. Again, let it benefit the 99% of people who could be benefited by this while the 1% who aren’t benefited are also no worse off than they already are. It’s all forward progress with no steps back and doesn’t harm those who wouldn’t benefit from it. Doesn’t this make sense to you?</p>

<p>As you know, there are many people who are not blind yet are visually impaired and have difficulty reading smaller font sizes. The Kindle and other ebooks have a benefit to these visually impaired people in that it allows them to change to a larger more comfortable font size so they can read many more books than they currently can with the limited number of paper books produced with large fonts. I’ve known several people in this category who would be able to read if the font size were large enough. Moreover, as Jonri stated, physically impaired people would benefit by not having to lug around heavy and bulky books (actually, almost anyone would benefit from this). Some simply wouldn’t be able to manage lugging the books depending on their disability. There are also many people who could benefit from the reduced cost of the books that is enabled by having them in electronic format versus crushed tree format. All of society and the environment also benefit by not having to first grow trees, cut them down, transport them to a processing plant in large fuel inefficient trucks, convert them into paper at a mill which has issues with wastewater, transport the heavy books all around the country to the sales outlets at yet a great deal more fuel usage, and then sell them in a brick and mortor store (or shipped via truck and airplane by online retailers).</p>

<p>Surely it’s not fair to shut these people out and reap the other benefits simply because there’s some category that might not be benefited. What about when the ebook is finally upgraded with a user interface that the blind can navigate yet it requires one to hear a prompt and press a button to navigate yet there’s someone who’s blind and has no use of their limbs and therefore couldn’t navigate it or they’re blind and deaf? Should the ebook be inhibited from being used because it doesn’t serve this very small segment of the population even though it benefits so many others? </p>

<p>Meanwhile, I do think that it makes sense for the Kindle and other ebooks to develop a user interface that can accommodate the blind. It makes sense to do it and there’s no technological challenge standing in their way to do so. I’m sure it will be done at some point if there aren’t already some that do this. Making the use of ebooks more pervasive, including replacing crushed tree textbooks and library books will make it much more likely that they’ll end up being enhanced to serve more and more of the population including the totally blind. There’s only an upside to starting to use the technology including an eventual upside for your child and others.</p>

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<p>jonri, nice to know that the device can be locked and backed up. The expense of replacing it is still there, of course. I don’t see why not needing access to the internet to download books should impact being able to make the device accessible. </p>

<p>For those of you who want to make the switch, is there any reason why you can’t right now? Just because a university doesn’t want to officially adapt Kindles doesn’t mean you can’t buy one and download whatever textbooks are available, right? Does having the school administration approve it as the “official” textbook distribution add additional benefits or usefulness? </p>

<p>I still don’t see them as a total win-win situation. There have been several pilot Kindle-as-textbook programs at different colleges, and the results are decidedly mixed. Many students really prefer hardcopy, others prefer the e-text, so both options will probably be available in the end.</p>

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<p>I’m not an expert but…</p>

<p>While it may be legally permissible or textbook companies may simply permit volunteers to record books for the blind, you can’t just scan books yourself and convert them to kindle format. If the copyright has expired, there are people who do this for free. (Thus far, I’ve spent 99 cents on books for my kindle. I’ve downloaded about 3 dozen. It’s great to be able to get classics for free. ) </p>

<p>If a textbook is still under copyright though, they can’t do that without the copyright holder’s permission. Now if Syracuse or UWis-Mad say we won’t permit our students to use the DX format, I suspect that means as a practical matter that Amazon can’t get rights to any textbooks printed by their university presses. It also means that profs who hold their own copyrights and/or other unversity presses are going to be very reluctant to give Amazon the rights. Who wants to be attacked for allegedly joining in discriminating against the blind? </p>

<p>Now, if a university says the Kindle DX is a preferred distribution system, I suspect that would mean that no prof would choose a textbook for a course unless it was available in kindle format. Before investing about $300 in a kindleDX to read textbooks, I suspect that the kids would like to know that they will actually be able to use it for that purpose. With an approved distribution system, you know you can. If it’s not…welll…you could end up paying $300 and finding out later that not a one of your textbooks is available on kindle. </p>

<p>If the technology is so simple to create, then why the heck don’t all those profs at UWisconsin-Mad and Syracuse do the research and give the license to Amazon, even for a fee? Or why don’t the authors of those textbooks volunteer to read them themselves for blind students? Or pay student wages to students to do it? Why assign textbooks unless you are sure that there IS an audio version available for the blind?</p>

<p>Methinks that it just might be because, while I admit you can’t pass on your copy of something on a kindle, the prof and ESPECIALLY university presses make one heck of a lot more money upfront on the print version. </p>

<p>Forgive the caps but WHY ARE BLIND STUDENTS ATTACKING THE MAKER OF EBOOKS INSTEAD OF THE PROFS AND UNIVERSITY PRESSES WHO AREN’T MAKING AUDIO VERSIONS OF NEW TEXTBOOKS!!! Or who are assigning textbooks that aren’t accessible to the blind? That’s the problem–attack them!!!</p>

<p>And, yea, if you lose a Kindle, you have to pay to replace it. If your textbooks are stolen, you have to pay to replace them. If several textbooks are stolen, it’s going to cost more than replacing a kindle.</p>

<p>But I really suspect that they would stop a lot of theft. I had a LOT of textbooks stolen when I was in college. (They were in a trunk for summer storage.) They ended up in a used book store. Not all book thieves are students. Swipe my kindle and nobody with half a brain will pay you anything for it. Even if you happened to need the books I’ve downloaded, it would be really easy to prove it was stolen.</p>

<p>I think both options will be available in the long run. I just think that those who LIKE Ebooks should have the option. Think of all the kids who pack a gazillion books to go home for Christmas if they have exams after the break. Think of all the kids on sports teams who have to pack 30 or 40 pounds of books when they go off to a tournament or spring break training…and are out of luck if they accidntally leave a texbtook on a plane. </p>

<p>Why can’t they get a little help if it doesn’t make blind kids worse off?</p>

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<p>Jonri, sorry, I didn’t mean to come across as rude at all. My D is also physically handicapped so carrying heavy books and other equipment is not very practical on a daily basis - I do understand the heavy weight of multiple texts. In an ideal world, manufacturers would have multiple formats available. The Kindle does have a larger font, but it isn’t large enough once vision loss gets to a certain point. The text to speech isn’t available for all materials, plus there is no way to access the usually necessary bookmarking and notation formats. Currently my D uses a special CD player that lets her do all that and more. The trick is, and with Kindle as well, is that not all the books themselves are available in CD (or Kindle) format. As noted already, not all books are available in Kindle and then, not all of them are available in text to speech. The issue that the blind have with these newer “gadgets” is that they arent tactile. Touchscreens are useless to them. Why wouldn’t they want to petition the manufacturers for a tactile voice-assisted version of a Kindle… or any other nifty gadget, for that matter (ITouch?IPhone anybody?!)? Nobody likes being left out of the party! But things ARE getting better… just not as fast as desired.</p>

<p>After thinking about it, I think I wouldn’t have a problem with a school recommending/requiring a particular format (Kindle) as long as they have built-in accommodations for those for whom the Kindle wouldn’t work. Currently my understanding is that materials (in this case, a textbook) cannot be “required” for a student without there being an accommodation available for the handicapped… which in my D’s case, sometimes means a CD or a braille version.</p>

<p>Really no easy answers for anyone trying to advocate for the handicapped. Personally speaking though, I have found that most institutions/professors/teachers are very willing to find a working solution for their students who don’t fit into the majority.</p>

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<p>It is always available UNLESS the AUTHOR of the book or holder of the copyright refuses to permit it. So, if a textbook isn’t available with this option, it’s NOT Amazon’s fault. Blame the author or copyright holder. </p>

<p>I think it would be awful to be blind. I admire your daughter for going to college at all. I mean that sincerely. And I can understand that the blind want to get access to new gadgets, especially useful gadgets. I just think it’s wrong to say that nobody else can have the gadgets until the blind are given equal access. </p>

<p>The benefits to society are so great–far fewer trees cut down; less carbon expended–no need to transport the books saving lots of fuel; light weight so they are easy to carry,etc. Plus, they really do help SOME people with vision problems. </p>

<p>Again, if it’s so easy to build a Kindle or other ereader that will “work” for the blind, then the universities should figure out how to do it and license Amazon, B&N,etc. </p>

<p>Personally, I don’t think this is about the blind at all. I think it’s about university presses and royalties. The universities get to look altruistic while serving their own agendas.</p>

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<p>I’m very irritated that textbooks will not be available on the Kindle.
I LOVE my kindle, and would love to put textbooks on it. </p>

<p>I think it is ridiculous that they won’t let the rest of us enjoy the convenience of our E-readers, just because some groups raised a stink…sometimes being PC gets to be too much</p>

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<p>I did not read through all of the posts, but perhaps the university thinks that if it doesn’t adopt the kindle for all students (which would be a great contract and $$$ in somebody’s pocket) because its visually impaired students can’t use it, the Kindle manufacturer would be more motivated to fix the problem. I have only had one student in my 10+ years of teaching who was blind and it was very difficult for him to get his books.</p>

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Good point. I am also curious how I would go about writing notes into my math textbooks on a Kindle.</p>