<p>Speaking of Dartmouth; Congratulations on your new hire for president. </p>
<p>[Dartmouth</a> Names Michigan Provost as Its President - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Michigan Provost Named to Lead Dartmouth - The New York Times”>Michigan Provost Named to Lead Dartmouth - The New York Times)</p>
<p>I would imagine it has got to be a thrill to be able to lead your alma mater.</p>
<p>^A former anthropology prof from Michigan (more recently Columbia) will be Cal’s next Chancellor.</p>
<p>IMO, USC has very strong alumni support. Much moreso than Stanford, Cal and UCLA.</p>
<p>Football/basketball success has a tendency to draw in support since that is a visible element and something alumni can rally around.</p>
<p>Just as a general rule, the “top” schools have great Alumni networks, and a lot of public flagships have great alumni networks too (Just due to sheer size). That’s not all completely true, but it’s a good generalization.</p>
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<p>TOSU Fisher Business College is top rated in the nation both in undergrad and MBA rankings via USNWR. Most business majors require at least 3.3 GPA to apply by your Junior year. Competitive majors such as Accounting requires no less than 3.5 GPA to get in, so I have no clue as to “the people that add value” comment above. Our Board of Chair Trustee Alumnus and the biggest philanthropist for tOSU - Mr. Wexner had said that he always gives preference to tOSU grads to most of his handful of business stores at all levels when it comes to hiring. Its global HQ is also located in Columbus, Ohio.</p>
<p>The Top 25 Recruiter Picks </p>
<p>[Best</a> Colleges & Universities - Ranked by Job Recruiters - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060.html?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection]Best”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060.html?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection)</p>
<p>Rankings by Major </p>
<p>[School</a> Rankings by College Major – Job Recruiter Top Picks - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703376504575491704156387646.html?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection]School”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703376504575491704156387646.html?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection)</p>
<p>Last but not least, having #1 Fan Base in the Land certainly would not hurt Ohio State’s connection, whereas many of the top liberal arts colleges mentioned above such as Clarkson & Jusdon would have people outside of its Alumni network second guess whether their graduates are on par with the top publics in terms of value or quality imho.</p>
<p>^What exactly are these “Job Recruiter” lists comparing?
Are they ranking by the number/percentage of job applications received from each school?
Are they ranking by the number/percentage of new hires from each school?
Are they ranking by the number of recruiters they send to the top schools?
What role did college size play in the ranking?
Do they adjust applications/offers/hires/visits by school population?
Is it just an opinion poll of 479 job recruiters who happened to respond to a survey?</p>
<p>The video accompanying the WSJ article hints at some of the factors the respondents may have considered … but I’m not finding much documentation of how the survey was conducted.</p>
<p>Sparkeye, there are alums at every school that have preference to their school but it seems as if I have struck a nerve with your school and you don’t see how others view it elsewhere. Maybe you live in a part of Ohio that has it locked down with tOSU alums? </p>
<p>Anyways, I don’t put too much stock into the GPA requirements since all of the university administrators I have talked to agree that it does nothing other than lead to grad inflation in order to ensure that they keep the students in the program. Though they all admit that it looks good to parents so it is a great marketing tool.</p>
<p>I have worked with plenty Buckeyes. Yes, Ohio State produces some great graduates but you can’t tell me that the school ensures that they all are worth hiring. I don’t judge a school by the number of Rhodes Scholars or those that go on to get an MBA, I judge them by the grads ranked in the bottom of their class. For this reason, large schools don’t perform too well.</p>
<p>But yes, recruiting at the larger schools is a great option since you get to cast a wide net and hit a lot of potential hires.</p>
<p>pinnum,</p>
<p>With all due respect, I’ve lived in Asia (Taiwan & Japan), across the United States (CA, MI, OH, ME, MA, NY, IL) and now living in the most affluent area in downtown Chicago, chilling with NU medical/law students and interacting with Ivy alum on daily basis. Buckeye fans / alum are everywhere no matter where I live. I proudly wear my Buckeye shirt wherever I go and have received countless recognitions and praises. Thank God, I am a Buckeye! :p</p>
<p>Furthermore, I agree that GPA is relative, not really a good indicator in comparing the selectivity/quality of student body in general. Here is the more standardized score between Clarkson, Judson and Ohio State.</p>
<p>Clarkson (Admission 2011)</p>
<p>ACT Composite: 23/ 28
ACT English: 21 / 27
ACT Math: 24 / 29 </p>
<p>[Clarkson</a> University Admissions: SAT Scores, Financial Aid & More](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/clarkson-university.htm]Clarkson”>Clarkson University: Acceptance Rate, SAT/ACT Scores)</p>
<p>Judson (Admission 2011)</p>
<p>ACT Composite: 21 / 26
ACT English: 20 / 26
ACT Math: 19 / 27 </p>
<p>[Judson</a> University Admissions: ACT Scores, Financial Aid & More](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/judson-university.htm]Judson”>Judson University Admissions: ACT Scores, Financial Aid)</p>
<p>Ohio State (Admission 2011)</p>
<p>ACT Composite: 26 / 30
ACT English: 25 / 31
ACT Math: 26 / 31</p>
<p>[Ohio</a> State University Profile - SAT Scores and Admissions Data for Ohio State University](<a href=“http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/OSU.htm]Ohio”>Ohio State University: Acceptance Rate, SAT/ACT Scores)</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I do agree that in terms of “value,” Ohio State is hard to beat as it offers excellent combination of academics and athletics with affordable tuition for OOS students thanks to the National Buckeye Scholarships ($48,000 for four years).</p>
<p>You’re missing my point. It is about culture and a lot of people miss that at the large schools because they have a culture of pride tied to the athletic programs.</p>
<p>If a Clarkson resume comes to the desk of a Clarkson alum it will instantly be a finalist considered. Same with Judson. This is not, often, the case with flagship schools.</p>
<p>If we look at acceptance rates tOSU is 63%, Judson is 64%, and Clarkson is 7%. This gives you an idea of the cultures. Additionally, there is a values assessment. Judson knows that anyone who gets a degree there has gone through a similar values assessment and religious study. Though this is not absolute, it is a good indicator of the type of person they will be–it becomes a solid character reference in and of itself. </p>
<p>As I have said, tOSU produces great graduates and I have done business from many great people from the school but just having an undergraduate degree from the school does not carry reverence with fellow alums and people familiar with the school as some other schools do with their alums.</p>
<p>Would I consider tOSU resume the same as I would as a Vanderbilt or USC resume? Yes. No doubt, it would hold more weigh than a resume from Fredonia State or Florida Atlantic. Yes, I know that there is a solid chance the tOSU person is good applicant but I would vet them the same as I would with most quality schools. On the other hand, if a Davidson or Williams resume came through, I would put it on the short list. </p>
<p>This is of course looking at recent graduates without subsequent studies and comparable work experience.</p>
<p>[Clarkson</a> University: U.S. News: Clarkson University Ranked in Tier One of National Universities & A Best Value](<a href=“http://www.clarkson.edu/news/2012/news-release_2012-09-12-1.html]Clarkson”>http://www.clarkson.edu/news/2012/news-release_2012-09-12-1.html)</p>
<p>Of the 1,003 universities in Payscale’s 2011-2012 College Salary Report, Clarkson graduates have the 17th highest starting salary average at $57,900, and one in five alumni is already a CEO or senior executive.</p>
<p>Clarkson is #34 on the “Great Schools at Great Prices” list (Best Value Schools), which takes into account a school’s academic quality, as indicated by its 2013 U.S. News Best Colleges ranking, and the 2011-2012 net cost of attendance for a student who receives the average level of need-based financial aid.</p>
<p>You’re comparing apples and oranges if you are comparing the appeal of tOSU grads to their alums with the appeal of Clarkson grads with their alums. There is a reason one in five Clarkson grads are C-level.</p>
<p>Side note: I have had family attend both schools and friends attend both schools.</p>
<p>“It is about culture and a lot of people miss that at the large schools because they have a culture of pride tied to the athletic programs”</p>
<p>That is an insulting statement. To suggest that large universities have no culture save cheering for their football teams is very demeaning. The richness of a campus culture is not assiciated with the size of the school. Some large universities have very rich campus cultures while some tiny universities lack a cohesive campus culture. School size and campus culture are not corelated. Having the added benefit of athletic tradition does not diminish campus culture. Schools like Duke, Georgetown, Michigan, Notre Dame, Penn State, Texas-Austin, Texas A&M, UNC and USC have very rich athletic traditions while at the same time, very rich campus cultures. </p>
<p>“If a Clarkson resume comes to the desk of a Clarkson alum it will instantly be a finalist considered. Same with Judson. This is not, often, the case with flagship schools.”</p>
<p>This is not entirely legal and could certainly lead to serious law suits. Sounds like cronyism. While cronyism was perfectly acceptable and commonly practiced in the 1930s-1970s, it has been an unacceptable practice in the workplace for the past two decades. Most hiring managers are closely scrutinized by other senior managers and HR to make sure that “empire building” and cronyism does not take place. </p>
<p>“As I have said, tOSU produces great graduates and I have done business from many great people from the school but just having an undergraduate degree from the school does not carry reverence with fellow alums and people familiar with the school as some other schools do with their alums.”</p>
<p>I do not know about tOSU, but that is clearly not the case with several major public universities. However, integrity and fear of legal reprisal and HR punitive action generally means that hiring managers will keep their distance from any activity that could be construed as being cronyistic in nature.</p>
<p>"Yes, I know that there is a solid chance the tOSU person is good applicant but I would vet them the same as I would with most quality schools. On the other hand, if a Davidson or Williams resume came through, I would put it on the short list. "</p>
<p>I do I understand the logic here. You would blindly assume that a Davidson or Williams student is qualified for a job while doubting the potential of a Vanderbilt, OSU or USC alum? Most employers today will carefully screen all candidates before settling on a short list. Again, major companis will have HR involved in those decisions to ensure that legal action is avoided.</p>
<p>Bottom line, the benefits of alumni networks are often exaggerated and slowly diminishing over time.</p>
<p>hmm… I would not be surprised if majority of employers outside of east coast do not recognize Clarkson (NY) versus say Ohio State on the resume. Payscale does not tell the whole story imho as east coast standard of living tends to cost more than the rest of the country. In short, Alex really hit the nail on the head with his post, so I see no need to elaborate further.</p>
<p>Alexandre - I agree about the athletics statement but Sparkeye, like most flagship alums continued to cite it as a reason. </p>
<p>“having #1 Fan Base in the Land certainly would not hurt Ohio State’s connection, whereas many of the top liberal arts colleges mentioned above such as Clarkson & Jusdon would have people outside of its Alumni network second guess whether their graduates are on par with the top publics in terms of value or quality imho.”</p>
<p>“Ohio State is hard to beat as it offers excellent combination of academics and athletics”</p>
<p>I compare it to the NYU undergrad students that cite Sterns and the success of Sterns grads as proof of how great it is to attend NYU as an undergrad. We all know this isn’t true. </p>
<p>You call it Cronyism while the biggest group of employers (small businesses under $100M in revenue) would just say they are ensuring business success. Business is a lot about trust and relationships.</p>
<p>Pinnum,</p>
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<p>Over 70% of donations to both Michigan and Ohio State come in fall - football season. Legal or not, I have received numerous Big Ten Alumni Networking Event invitations here in Chicago, so I would have to assume that there must be a good number of B1G alum / fanatics at the hiring position who would certainly embrace/favor the B1G Conference connection over others.</p>
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<p>Indeed, not even Harvard holds 100% true in that regard (sorry Veritas)! My point of that paragraph was “value,” and the complete sentence did include “National Buckeye Scholarship” for the OOS students in which Ohio State education would be hard to beat given the combination of Academics + Athletics + Scholarships. NYU is a horrible example to be compared to tOSU imho, as it is one of the most expensive higher education institutions in America.</p>
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<p>That’s according to one survey by the WSJ of 479 recruiters.
[Best</a> Colleges & Universities - Ranked by Job Recruiters - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060.html?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection]Best”>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704554104575435563989873060.html?mod=WSJ_PathToProfessions_TopLEADNewsCollection)</p>
<p>Another survey, by the NYT of over 2500 recruiters plus ~2200 CEOs/managers for unspecified “top companies” worldwide, comes up with an entirely different list of top 10 schools. It completely contradicts the WSJ findings about preferences for state schools v. selective private schools. I don’t see Penn State anywhere in the top 150 (which includes US and foreign schools). TOSU is #120 (a little above Wisconsin, a little below Washington).
[Global</a> Companies Rank Universities - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Global Companies Rank Universities - NYTimes.com”>Global Companies Rank Universities - NYTimes.com)</p>
<p>Which survey should you believe? I don’t know; maybe neither. They are two different sets of opinions with little or no documentation displayed about the specific questions being asked or other aspects of the survey process.</p>
<p>^^^^PSU was ranked 75th last year in that same survey tk. No school should drop that much in one year in an accurate survery.</p>
<p>Here’s the 2011 NYT survey result:
[Education</a> - Image - NYTimes.com](<a href=“Education - Image - NYTimes.com”>Education - Image - NYTimes.com)</p>
<p>The 2011 survey covered “hundreds of chief executives and chairmen, chosen from leading companies in 10 countries”. It was compiled by one survey company (Emerging).</p>
<p>The 2012 survey covered “more than 2,500 recruiters and about 2,200 international chief executives and business managers”. They were chosen from “top companies in 20 countries”. It was compiled by 2 survey companies (Emerging and Trendence).</p>
<p>So this is not a repeat of quite the same survey. These are two different surveys reported by the NYT. The second one, like the first NYT-reported survey (but unlike the WSJ-reported survey), shows selective private universities dominating the top 10.</p>
<p>I’ve heard good things about the alumni networks of Dartmouth, Duke, USC, and Notre Dame.</p>
<p>This study confirms what I had said. Small associations hold more weight.
[Employers</a> Hire Potential Drinking Buddies Ahead Of Top Candidates - Forbes](<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/12/03/employers-hire-potential-drinking-buddies-ahead-of-top-candidates/]Employers”>Employers Hire Potential Drinking Buddies Ahead Of Top Candidates)</p>
<p>She quotes a banker who says, “She plays squash. Anyone who plays squash I love,” and ranked the squash-playing applicant first among potential hires. </p>
<p>I can tell you exactly what to have an interest in or what to highlight in order to be hired by certain individuals and firms. Small schools have always took care of their own much better than large schools and privates better than publics. If a school has developed a program for this purpose, it has been my observations that it is more for marketing and is less organic than the schools that don’t need to engineer a program to make it happen. But that it just my observations over the years…</p>
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<p>TOSU’s state-of-the-art $150 million RPAC recreation facility with 10 racquetball courts and 4 squash courts would be heaven for fostering this skill. :p</p>
<p>Ohio State Rec Sports</p>
<p>[Ohio</a> State Rec Sports - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzX9-ar90SI]Ohio”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzX9-ar90SI)</p>
<p>If we are talking about developing a well-rounded personality, I would once again refer Public over Private as it enrolls students with vast variety of interests and diversity in terms of socio-economic background. In addition, there are over 1,000 various clubs and student organizations at Ohio State available for the students. Last but not least, with over 200 Alumni Chapters all over the world, I am always connected no matter where I go. Not sure if I can say the same for the liberal arts or other small private colleges.</p>
<p>P.S. Our brand spanking new $120 million Student Union offers great space for students to participate in countless social activities and interact with various support groups. The resources and opportunities at Ohio State are simply endless imho! :D</p>
<p>New Ohio Union</p>
<p>[New</a> Ohio Union walkthrough with Jessica Weihrauch - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G55yTkZ6CYM]New”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G55yTkZ6CYM)</p>
<p>Go Bucks!! :)</p>