University admissions for music majors

College Majors Music Major
1

Hello, i thought i would start a thread with information the admissions process when the music school is part of a larger university. I know that

  1. University of Michigan screens the applicants’ academics before inviting students to the audition. If you get past the pre-screen, that means the university will not have any objection if the music faculty accepts you following the life audition.
  2. Rice seems to depend solely on whether the music faculty wants you or not.
  3. Boston University has been very clear that someone could play an amazing audition, be loved by the music faculty, and still get rejected by the University.

Can anyone corroborate the above? And please add your own knowledge of schools like Northwestern, Oberlin, USC, Ithaca, NYU, Miami, and the other usual suspects. Thanks!

1 Like
2

Our son has been solely focused on applying to music school jazz programs at universities, so here’s what we can share that may be helpful

I’ve heard that USC Thornton and Miami Frost both take the same approach, which is similar to how you describe Boston University:

  • the music school and the university are separate, almost parallel parts of the process, but with music school having essentially right of first refusal once the live audition is complete:

a) If the music school/faculty wants a candidate, the university checks to make sure the student is academically “in the ballpark” (ACT/SAT and GPA above the 25th quartile at a minimum, preferably above the mean, and a competent essay).

b) If the music school/faculty wants a candidate, but they are not “in the ballpark,” they will get turned down. In some cases, if two musicians are tied after the audition, the one with the better academic record will get the offer. A friend of mine used to work in admissions at USC Thornton and that person said that there are too many great musicians with good academics for school and/or the university to feel that they have to settle for someone with inferior academics; plus, on the classical music side (particularly with violin, cello, and piano), almost all of the preferred candidates also have great scores and GPAs, so it’s moot.

c) If the music school/faculty doesn’t want a candidate but the university is still interested, the school will likely reach out to the candidate to see if he/she would want to attend the university if they don’t get into the music school (this happened to a jazz sax player we know).

Heard directly from Miami Frost that they’re looking for ACT above a 28-29 (superscored). They didn’t mention a specific GPA. USC Thornton’s academics standards are higher than that. I’ve heard Northwestern Bienen also has the same approach, with academics similar to USC Thornton.

Have not heard about NYU Steinhardt’s or UCLA’s policy/tendencies, but I’d guess that it’s similar to USC and Miami.

On the other hand . . .

Peabody (Johns Hopkins) flat out says that the priority is music. This is from their website:

WHAT GPA DO YOU REQUIRE FOR ACCEPTANCE?
For undergraduate applicants, we look for a 3.0 GPA and for SAT/ACT scores appropriate for success at a music conservatory. These are not the same as those used for entrance to other schools of the Johns Hopkins University. If there is a question about an applicant’s academic record, it is sent to the Dean for Academic Affairs for evaluation. In practice, we rarely reject anyone for purely academic reasons. However, it would not be ethical for us to accept a student who is unlikely to do well in the academic side of their programs.

On the website for The New School, School of Jazz & Contemporary music, they say this: “The audition is the primary evaluation tool for both acceptance to the BFA program and scholarship consideration.”

1 Like
3

I know at Northwestern that a good audition will cure the sick but not raise the dead. The dean specifically said a “31” on the ACT would not hold you back. Yikes. But their 25th percentile is 32. He said they admit who they want and THEN submit that list to undergrad admissions. At that point you can be academically disqualified but he said while that does happen, it is not common.

1 Like
4

We had a different experience at Northwestern when we toured last year - they said you had to get into the university first and then the music school. One of the many reasons my S didn’t apply.

1 Like
5

NYU Steinhardt waived standardized test scores this year for music majors who are doing auditions. I was told it was fine to choose this option if the scores are unimposing but the student had a strong gpa/essays.

1 Like
6

When we were at Rice Shepard the admissions director made a point of saying that they only make recommendations to the main Rice admissions office, they do not have the final say. It might be the case that the music faculty recommendation holds more sway there than at comparable institutions. They also pass relatively few prescreens, so it may be there’s an initial check to make sure you’re in the ballpark at that phase. It is different than some other university music schools in that you choose to apply to Shepard or “main” Rice, but can’t do both at the same time.

D18 applied dual degree to Northwestern, Oberlin, Eastman/U Rochester, UMich, BU, and I believe CMU. My recollection is that in each of those cases the music schools and the arts and sciences schools conducted their admissions reviews completely separately. This is not to say there’s no academic review at the music schools. I think in most cases the “grades and scores” bar is relaxed somewhat for strong musicians, but not erased.

Vanderbilt/Blair requires applicants to apply to both Blair and the rest of Vanderbilt as part of the process of applying to Blair.

1 Like
7

Thanks @Music2023 for starting this thread. S17 is only applying to music schools within universities and looking to do a dual degree or double major in psychology. He thus far was denied by Northwestern ED (not because of academics) and has been admittted to U Mich LSA. His U Mich jazz audition is 2/1. He is also auditioning at USC and UCLA. Waiting on NYU Steinhardt and Peabody/Hopkins. Does anyone have insight into how music kids fare at these universities if they attend the university without being in the music school?

1 Like
8

That’s really interesting. We had the dean of admissions do our tour because the student who was supposed to do it was sick lol. My son was the student who asked if it went undergrad first then music or music school then undergrad admissions. His test scores are on the lower end for a standard admit but within their range. The dean of admissions says they make a list of who they want and then “walk it over to undergraduate admissions” and they approve,them.As long as they are within range the undergrad office just checks off on it. My son was relieved because NU is so competitive. Kids with really high stats routinely get rejected.

It is very confusing how colleges treat musicians.

1 Like
9

@DVmom18 - hmmmm…so much conflicting info out there! The dean spoke to us after the tour and maybe I just heard him wrong (it was day one of a five day - five schools Midwest college tour ‘extravaganza’ so hopefully your info is correct.

@lkbux64 - my S is interested in dual degree (Psych maybe) as well - hence only university music programs as well. Our list was a little more challenging as many of the schools didn’t have a strong classical percussions program. Some schools also actively discourage dual degrees (Indiana for one), so we will wait for acceptances (fingers crossed) and then see how many credits S will get with his AP/community college classes before declaring double major. Our thought is that he will have many of his music GE credits completed that a double major won’t be as onerous as if he started from scratch. Ah so many decisions!

1 Like
10

Peabody is not a music school within a University. The two schools are really connected by name only. A Hopkins student will not be able to play in the Peabody Symphony Orchestra. Whether they allow cross - registration for one or two classes, that might be the case but the schools are very far from each other. Whether a Hopkins student can study privately with a Peabody faculty member, that question would most likely be solved with money and willingness.

1 Like
11

Lendless is your son considering a double degree or double major or both?

1 Like
12

@lkbux64 I guess it depends on the school and what they want to do. I know a clarinet player (classical music) who was an engineering student at USC Viterbi and was able to do a minor in music at USC Thornton. He studied with David Howard, a member of the LA Phil. During the recent “Discover USC” open house, we heard from Thornton students and faculty that non-Thornton students are able to take classes in the music school. Thornton students get priority, of course, but it’s not rare. Much more common is to have Thornton students taking classes within different majors (e.g. jazz students taking music production classes).

Peabody is unique among the major music schools at universities. What @Music2023 is true: non-Peabody students aren’t going to be able to take many classes at Peabody. That said, the reverse – a Peabody student taking Johns Hopkins classes – is definitely possible. I know of a Peabody violinist who decided during her freshman year to pursue a double major (in Economics, if memory serves). She’d take a shuttle bus between the two campuses. She said it was work, but not overwhelming and definitely worth it.

1 Like
13

@compmom - he’s thinking double major (assuming they are both in the same “school” within the university). The only place that would be a dual degree would be CIM/Case Western. He’s super interested in Psychoogy and life sciences.

1 Like
14

Just a quick note : A double major requires a lot of work. My S, who is a freshman this year (Violin Performance), does not have time to do anything but music. He has 9 hours of Orch a week, 2 of Chamber, and approx 1-2 hours of private instruction. In addition to this, there are about 6 hours of Music theory, 4 hours of Keyboard instruction, and about 4 hours of GEd. That is approximately 25 class room hours a week. He practices his instrument about 6-7 hours a day, every day the week. Unlike his violin lessons at home, he has to go prepped, else run the risk of getting axed.

This schedule does not give him any time for anything other than music. He went into freshman year hoping to take some physics classes starting in the 2nd semester - and as you can tell, there is very little time for anything else. He’s shelving his physics plans for now.

So when you take on a double major, be sure you are able to handle the load. It is a lot.

Sorry, I don’t mean to be a downer, hopefully, a reality check and most of you are aware of all this already.

Happy New Year !

15

That’s why a 5 year double degree is more usual for performance majors, if they want to study another subject area.

1 Like
16

@gram22 Thanks for your info - S knows it will be a lot of work and is hoping his AP classes and community college classes will allow him to skip most of the GenEd requirements, making the double major more “doable”. He’s also been taking piano at the community college to place higher in Keyboard as well. So doing a lot of prep now to hopefully take more interesting classes later, of course this could all be moot depending on the school.

1 Like
17

@gram22 - curious, where does your son go to school?

1 Like
18

@lkbux64 : He’s at USC Thornton.

1 Like
19

My son is at Northwestern. His stats were in range for admission there, but in the lower 50th. My impression was that they picked him based on audition, and got the academic stamp of approval after.

Other places he was accepted:

Miami Frost and SMU, pretty much all about audition then the university approved. I got the sense that it would have to be a pretty bad academic record to override the music faculty.

UT and UNT - I think if you meet minimum academic requirements for the institution it’s all up to the music faculty, but you do have to meet that minimum. We know someone who was rejected academically from UNT even though the music faculty wanted them. We are Texas residents and S had automatic academic admission to both long before he auditioned.

Peabody/Hopkins - he applied to Peabody and Hopkins separately wanting to do a dual degree. He was accepted to Peabody but rejected from Hopkins. Was told he could take all the classes he wanted at Hopkins (a shuttle runs continuously between the two) but he would not have a Hopkins degree. Also, I think more money is available through Hopkins than Peabody, so there’s that.

Bard Conservatory and Bard College - separate applications and separate admissions. If you get into the convservatory but not the college you are out of luck, because you have to do a dual degree if you are in the music program.

Hope this helps.

1 Like
20

@DVmom18 To your analogy that a good audition can’t raise the dead, why would a school like Northwestern even invite you for an audition if you were in the “dead” category? Why would they invite you if they didn’t think there was a chance they could get you in?

1 Like